SS LAH NCO's Soldbuch+Infanterie Sturmabzeichen Documents

[Simon O.]

True but in black and white photos difficult to determine sometimes......if you check many a Soldbuch a lot appear to be blond

I actually mentioned that in your PM Simon!

So you did Ian, I'm going senile

His hair though has no hint of being light.

[JUNGCO]

At first look, this appeared to be a good book. It now appears the extra award page has been "added" along with the photo and award document. The top of page one has a stamp that you can't see completely and I wonder if this was one of the Art. Reg. 1 books, that have been on the market, which were replaced with a new Zweitschrift in June 1944. They all came out of the Czech Republic from the SS Art. Ers. Rgt., stationed in Prague. It would be easy to add an extra page and photo to one of those.
Jeff

[Daniele C]

Good job Ian and Simon,
This wasnt an easy one and can be a good lesson to younger and less experienced collectors like me.
Jeff is right as well.


Daniele

[Ian Jewison]

It now appears the extra award page has been "added" along with the photo and award document.

It could be that the EK I is the only award added on that page as the other stamps appear to be OK.....with that said the Ostuf. Stamp looks almost like the one underneath....slightly different colour and size or not!?!?!

Either way there's enough suspect about it without digging deeper

[Panzer Rob]

Well...

Isn't it interesting how 'dodgy items' make their way around the hobby! This Soldbuch and document have turned up on a well known US dealer's website:

http://oakleafmilitaria.com/paper%20&%20documents.htm


Now... who is to blame for this turning up on a dealer site without any mention of the major issues at hand? As no mention of the post-war fake SS runic stamp on the front cover, nor the bogus photo, bogus EK1 and driver's badge in silver award entries, bogus document etc. have been mentioned in the sales thread on oakleaf militaria, I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess it was offered to the dealer as an original. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that the dealer is unaware of this thread and assumes that everything is 100% legitimate.

I'd also like to know where that "Gestapa" SS-Ausweis came from (4th item down from the top). There's so much wrong with it, I don't even know where to begin. IMHO this is a post-war fabrication made from an unissued SS-Unterführer-Ausweis (the card itself is original).



Rob

[JUNGCO]

You can see the entry at the top of page one better and this appears to have been a "replaced" book like I suggested. Also notice there is not a security check after the 1.3.44 one which would infer, that he was either dead or again it is a "replaced" book by Sept. 44.
Jeff

[Simon O.]

The formal DKiS doc on there is also bad FWIW.

[SiPo]

I'd also like to know where that "Gestapa" SS-Ausweis came from (4th item down from the top). There's so much wrong with it, I don't even know where to begin. IMHO this is a post-war fabrication made from an unissued SS-Unterführer-Ausweis (the card itself is original).

Rob

I too would be interested. Such a shame to have ruined a nice card.

[Panzer Rob]

You can see the entry at the top of page one better and this appears to have been a "replaced" book like I suggested. Also notice there is not a security check after the 1.3.44 one which would infer, that he was either dead or again it is a "replaced" book by Sept. 44.
Jeff

Jeff-

You're correct. This Soldbuch was replaced with a 'new' Soldbuch, leaving a perfect canvas for a 'faker' to go to work, in this case adding award entries and a photo.


I find it extremely upsetting that after being offered for sale here, flagged, discussed and dismissed as tampered with, the Soldbuch and document made its way to a dealer's site without any mention of the fake IAB award document, EK1 entry and post-war added photo.

There shouldn't be any misunderstandings on the red flags here, but just to be sure everyone is on the same page, let's recap:

The runic SS stamp on the front cover is a well-known, post-war fake. This exact stamp has show up on at least 3 other fake or tampered-with Soldbücher/Wherpässe in the last year or two.

The IAB in bronze award document is a forgery.

The exact same round unit stamp used on the fake award document is used on the Iron Cross 1st class award entry 'and' the photo in the Soldbuch. Forgetting the fact that the IAB document is a fake, these two entries (issue of award document and addition of the photo in the Soldbuch) would have been done almost 4 years apart, at two different levels of administration, yet it is the exact same stamp with the exact same flaws in the exact same places. Furthermore, the signature on the EKI entry has noticeable differences from the other signatures by the same officer in the book (for example, there is only one dot instead of two in the umlaut and the shape and pitch of certain letters do not match up). It exhibits the 'start-stop' characteristics typical with forged signatures and lacks a natural flow and has a though-out feel to it, as if it were being copied from the signature above or below it.

Not that we should have to dive any deeper, but to get even more specific, as an artillery soldier he would have been awarded the GAB - not the IAB (in bronze 'or' silver.) The document is for a IAB in bronze, yet the IAB being worn in the photo appears to be silver. Also note that the waffenfarbe on his shoulder straps is white - it should be red.

So, based on the above we have a fake IAB document, fake photo and fake EKI entry.

Rob

[Hank C.]

Well...

Isn't it interesting how 'dodgy items' make their way around the hobby! This Soldbuch and document have turned up on a well known US dealer's website:

http://oakleafmilitaria.com/paper%20&%20documents.htm


Now... who is to blame for this turning up on a dealer site without any mention of the major issues at hand?

...edit...

Rob

Good question...I noticed the original seller never replied to this thread...but he was online this morning. Perhaps revisiting this thread?

Hmmmm....

Hank

[Panzer Rob]

Good question...I noticed the original seller never replied to this thread...but he was online this morning. Perhaps revisiting this thread?

Hmmmm....

Hank

Hank,

My thoughts and concerns exactly. It's extremely upsetting to know that the recent activity in this thread has been brought to the attention of "JP_rikusen" (I sent him a PM to which he replied) yet he chooses not to explain how his tampered-with Soldbuch has made its way to a high-profile dealer's site without any mention of the post-war EKI award entry and bogus IAB in bronze document.

Very upsetting indeed.


Rob