Ostbattalion 441 Kennbuch D-Day

[pauke!]

Ostbat 441.

Hello Polux and You Other´s

Great to see a document for Hauptmann Roth, this must bee rare. It´s amazing that this can happends. If we dont have had internet and WA this could not have happend´s

Polux have You do any resarch on Hauptmann Roth and the Ost-batl 441 ? If the batl was destroyed how many survivors can it bee, and did they get war prisoner or maybee sendt back to the Russian after the war ?

Thank you Erich-Jan now I will keep it after what You tell me. I have see some other books for sell, I think it was Weitze that have them.

Cheer´s

Björn

Björn

[Eric JB]

Hi Björn,

It is possible that these booklets are coming to the surface out of russian archives.
I have never seen them for sale or on the collectors market in the past collecting years.
Don't know if there will be more coming available, but at the moment such booklets are still very rare.
Almost all of those captured Ost soldiers were handed over to the russians by the western allies, and most of them were killed afterwards.
Knowing that the unit your man served with was destroyed on the battle fields can only give you some idea of how rare a booklet for Ost.Btl.441 might be.
So you made a very nice catch, and sure a great item for your collection.

yours friendly

Eric-Jan

[polux]

Hello,

Björn : I did not make a research on the military career of Richard Roth. No track of him on the site of the Volksbund. It would so have to have survived.

Eric-Jan: it exists some model of Kennbuch, according to the nationalities. That of the Björn is reserved for the Ukrainian. I possess two Kennbuch for the Russian nationality. At present the Mr Weitze's site proposes 4 Kennbuch Russian.

Cordial greetings.

Polux

[JUNGCO]

Polux,
From the Heeresmitteilung 1942, page 552, section 993, Kennbuch were issued to Russian, Ukrainian, Latvian, Lithuanian and Estonians.
Jeff

[Eric JB]

Hi POLux,

Yes I did have a look at Weitze, the Georg.Feld.Btl. is on his site for some time now.
Like to see such booklets like the one Björn is showing here, soldiers who fought in the west.
A Georg.Leg. for the west will be great.
As far as I can see, the four that Weitze is selling .... all served in the east.

yours

Eric-Jan

[peter u]

Hello,

There must be examples of Trawniki volunteers also, the Hiwi's that notoriously participated as executers of the final solution.

But alas the four examples on Weitze aren't those neither.

Cheers,
Peter

[polux]

Hello,

Jeff : thank you for these invaluable information. Does your document also clarify the various Soldbuch's variety show ?

Eric-Jan : personally, I think that the Kennbuch were used mainly on the East. It is very likely that these Kennbuch was still used after the movement of these volunteers units on the West. Afterward, these documents were changed and the volunteers received Soldbuch, model Heer or bilingual. To illustrate my comment and as you wished it, you will find an image of a Soldbuch of a Georgian volunteer serving on the West. Document opened in October, 1942 for a Georgian incorporated into the Georg. Inf. Btl. 799.

Cordial greetings.

Polux

[JUNGCO]

Polux,
Sorry, the AHM 42, page 552, section 993, only refers to change in an order from OKH/Gen St d H/Org Abt.(II) Nr.8000/42 (Betr.: Landeseigene Hilfskraefte im Osten) which deals with how to handle the eastern foreign volunteers.
I do not have that order, so can't say if they prescribe when Soldbuch are issued and which are biligual.
Jeff

[Eric JB]

Hi polux,

Thank you for showing your Georg.Inf.Btl.799 man, still hope to find a booklet of a soldier who served on Texel !

yours

Eric-Jan

[pauke!]

Ost.Btl.441

Hello Again.

I have done some resarch about the Ost.Btl.441 and the area they are fighting. And found this take a look at http://www.evidenceincamera.co.uk/exhibits/

Go to the "photo exhibation" and choose, D-Day as seen by Noris Hartwell or D-Day as seen by John Hanover

That was in this area the Ost.Battl.441 was fighting I think but I am not sure. I must take a closer look at the aerial photos.

Cheer´s

Björn

[SMV]

Georg Leg. dog tag.


Cheers

[Pfluger]

Do you guys know if there where also heer soldbuche given out to ukrain ost batl. like the 439th and the 441th? Soldbuche like those of the georgische. Let me know if you have seen any examples.

Question, the foriegn like the georgische and Ukrain how did they get the soldbuch? Did they first go to any ersatz unit? or are they getting the papers right of the desk of the KP-Chef? Because I see the stamp of 'georgische legion' but not any unit name/number in the georgische soldbuch. I would like to have an scan of page 4.

Greeting, Pflüger

[braveheartls13]

Texel soldbuch or kennbuch

Dear Erich-Jan

Hi..Tell me..did you ever find a soldbuch or kennbuch for a Georgian who had served on Texel?

Any documents or pix about the 822nd Georgia Infantry Battalion? If so, can I have copies?

Also, what is your interest in the Texel Georgians?

I hope that you can help. If you need help with any subject just ask..

Bes..Al:->

[Eric JB]

Hi Al,

Sorry to say that I have no documents or ID for a Georgian who served on Texel, seems to be impossible to find such material at all.

I am interested in the Texel uprising, because it was the last battle field in the Netherlands during ww2, and a special one too.

I have only some death cards of German soldiers who died during the uprising.

yours friendly

Eric-Jan

[braveheartls13]

Texel..more

Hi, Eric-Jan..with apologies for the typo in your name..

I see your reply..worth a try:->

I have added a revamp of my 2003 Texel Mutiny essay on the Foreign Volunteers forum. I include the observation that Europe's Last Battle was, in my view, fought by desperate men in an unavoidable situation against seemingly superior forces.. that contrary to Gogi's claim that the 822nd battalion was 'destroyed' the Georgians never surrendered as a unit, were not destroyed and had 230 survivors most of whom stayed together all the way back to the Caucasus Mountains...and that they pinned down 2000 German troops and thereby saved many Allied lives.

I have also posted the hard fact that Gogi, who (perhaps commendably) does not mention these items in his posts, vehemently opposes any portrayal of the 822nd battalion as 'valiant allies' of the Western armies or as 'heroes' prefering instead to label the battalion's secret wartime Communist Party committee leaders as 'war criminals'.

The Texel Mutiny leaders, he argues, executed one of their own officers for being pro-German, committed atrocities against German soldiers and, by supporting Stalin, helped to keep Georgia under Soviet domination.

Gogi also argues in his books that during 1947 interrogations of mutiny leaders by the Soviet secret police, a senior 822nd battalion figure, Yevgenny Artemidze, saved his own skin by denouncing a wartime battalion officer as pro-Nazi. The officer was arrested and sent to Siberia where he eventually died in a labour camp. Gogi long accused Artemidze of being a traitor, of collaborating with Georgia's communist regime and of being complicit in the death of the above officer.

So, I am a survivor and the debate rolls on. Thank you for replying and I will keep my eyes open for 822nd battalion items.

Besten..Al:->