ss wehrpass info

[Felix]

Interesting and informative thread!

If anyone got a soldbuch or wehrpass from Treblinka I would be interested in purchasing it! I have read a scaring eye witness book about the camp by a french author. I have also been on site 2003. Its a silent place in a forested area north of Warsawa. In the tiny village with the name Treblinka it seems like the time has stood still since WW2. But what remains today of the camp is only what the soviets restored after the WW2.

So, any soldbuch, wehrpass to show from Treblinka or possible for sale?

"Felix" - N. Hansson

[peter u]

Hello Felix,

I think I can speak for all the people intrested in KL-related items that we all would like to own a "Treblinka" wp or sb!!!!

Myself have never seen an exterminationcamp (except Auschwitz-Birkenau) related document. The reasons that I think I have never seen them are:

- These camps (Sobibor, Treblinka,...etc) were quite small, certainly on manpower, the ss-soldiers doing the actual exterminations is a very small group.
- Also Treblinka and Sobibor were closed after revolts in wich some prisoners could escape. They where not only closed but totaly demolished and the evidence of their existance wipped out in 1943. So all related document should have been destroyed also.
- You certanly would have not wanted to be caught in 1945 with a document linking you to these camps, a certain death penalty would be your fate. So I think the guards that survived the war would have burned the evidence linking them to these camps.

If you have the chance watch the documentary "shoah" by Claude Lanzmann their is in it a hidden camera interview with a former ss-member of the exterminationcamp of Treblinka involved in the gasing of the Jews, shocking testimony!

[Nico C]

Nice thread.
I'm learning each post something new

[Sonderkommando]

Judas,
Tell me more about the person in Oz who has the soldbuch to Ilse Koch?

I have seen one that was doing the rounds years ago over here that was supposed to belong to Ilse Koch and in fact it was not to her at all but someone with a name spelt similar. Also the photo was not of Ilse Koch.


Brett

[peter u]

Hello guys,

Another example of KL-guard complex organisation:

- In the 80's M. De Wilde (Belgian Tv reporter) made a series about Flemish volunteers in the ss. He interviewed many surviving ss-veterans; they admited that whilst they were training in the ss-training facility of Debica (Poland) did also do guard-duty on the fence of the local Jew internementcamp some of them were involved in wilful shooting of Jews who tried to "escape" to claim an extra day of leave and or extra pay.
So in conclusion they are not offical KL-guards, it is also not mentioned in their sb or wp but they are involved in the KL-system and some of them even in the crimes against humanity!

[JUNGCO]

If you notice, many SS Ersatz units were near KL's. You would think it was part of their training to do guard duty at the camps. Or even if they were with a Ersatz unit recovering from wounds.
Jeff

[peter u]

Jungco makes a good point.

Also ss-barakcamps and training facility's used forced laborers to maintain their property (also jews) from the neighbouring KL. This was also the case for some luftwaffe controled airfields for example Gerdenau airfield used prisoners from KL Stutthof.
Buchenwald alone had more than 122 "aussen commando's".

[peter u]

Hello,
The point I'am trying to make with my previous comments is that when you are willing to obtain a KL related wp or sb try to find out if it is original first, then what the soldiers function or part was in the holocaust or forced labor program.
Did he actively participated in the extermination program or was one of the brutal slave drivers in the forced labor program, or just a bookkeeper, or a guard on the fence,...etc.?
The more they are actively involved and have blood on their hands the more intresting they are and become more scarce and by this more valuable. Remeber there were far more people involved who kept silent or even benefited from the KL system (stealing from inmates, taking bribes,... etc) when they saw these crimes being comited then actual perpetrators!

I feel that every item with a KL-connection is considered to be on the same level, it is not! There are diferences: a luftwaffe wachbattalion who transferd to a tottenkopf sturmbann unit is not the same level as an early ss totenkopfverbande soldier who was actif in Auschwitz 1942 for example.

[Felix]

Peter;

Yes I agree that ofcourse it would be a very very rare thing to find. But Im sure the guards at Treblinka were transfered to other camp afterwards and should therefore have Treblinka stamps in the WP or soldbuch? There are several books with a number of different KZ stamps in them. There must be books around with Treblinka stamps or even some documents out there. No one even got a Treblinka stamp or ever seen one as this is a historical evidence of the mysterious camp Treblinka that only eye witnesses can tell about.

Felix

[peter u]

Hello Felix,
Thanks for your repley.

These are just a idea's:
- mayby the name Treblinka was not used on offical documents perhaps the camp had a code name, which was not uncommen for a camp with such a job?
- perhaps the guards did for administration reasons (pay, clothing,... etc) belong to another camp or ss/sd unit (this was the case for more small camps, with not an independant administrations and logistics for example the "Breendonk-camp personel" was officily a part of SD department Brussels) ?

Does anyone on this forum ever seen an extermination-camp (Treblinka, Sobibor,Belzec) stamp or citation in a sb or wp except for Auschwitz II and Lublin?

Thanks Peter.

[Felix]

I think Treblinka did exist for about 2 years and it was not the biggest camp if you speak about area! It was an experimentally pure extermination camp and no factories or work places attached like at Auschwitz! Still it was a huge killing machine and some 800 000 people were exterminated there and surely there must have been trains comming in daily! Are there any known field post numbers for the Treblinka camp? Did other camps use the field post numbering system?

I hope all of you dig out what you got and try to find any Treblinka stamps in WP, SB or in documents!

Anyone knows which SS TK detachment that did the service there?

"Felix" - N. Hansson

[peter u]

Hello Felix,

This morning I did a bit of research about Treblinka, this is what I found:

- Their was a camp build in 1941 in the Treblinka area with the code name: "Arbeitslager Treblinka" later called Treblinka I. This was a forced laborcamp with a regime similar to a KL; it is estimated that about 10.000 people died in this camp.

- In the spring of 1942 the prisoners from Treblinka I started construction work on the extermination camp called Treblinka II which was finished in july 1942.

- This camp (Treblinka II) did function as an extermination camp murdering about 800.000 people until a revolte broke out on 2 august 1943; so it did only operated as an extermination camp for about 1 year!
And by november 1943 everything was demolished.

- It had a small ss-garison which was assisted by Ukrainian collaborating military personel and about a 1000 jews forced to help exterminat their fellow partners in distress.


For more first hand information their is the documentary "Shoah" by Claude Lanzmann which has very good interviews with the people (ss-guards and jewish people who helped with the extermination program and by just good luck did survive the holocaust) involved in the Treblinka extermination facility.

Myself I have never seen a "felpost number" being used in a KL related sb.

[polux]

Kl

Hello to all,

For information, the staff SS of the Treblinka camp is estimated of about 20 to 35 SS. Therefore the documents emanating from this camp are extremely rare.

For information, here is the list of some camps with the number of staff in January, 1945 (source French MacLean " The Men camp ") :

Auschwitz : 2530
Bergen-Belsen : 289
Buchenwald : 6829
Dachau : 3606
Dora-Mittelbau/Nordhausen : 3319
Flossenbürg : 3079
Gross-Rosen : 4128
Mauthausen : 5697
Natzweiler-Struthof : 1644
Neuengamme : 2452
Plaszow : 636
Ravensbrück : 1554
Sachsenhausen/Oranienburg : 3993
Stutthof : 1056

Cordial greetings.

Polux

[polux]

Kl

Hello,

Here is a Wehrpass of a Croatian volunteer being of use to the KL Gross-Rosen. Page 2 : interesting detail : photo in uniform with Totenkopf.

Cordial greetings.

Polux

[polux]

Kl

Page 12