Question regarding 'open' wehrpass and Wehrstammbuch

[Simon O.]

I recently picked up a nice grouping of docs to a KM NCO which are both interesting and frustrating, here's why.

The group includes werhpass, soldbuch, kennkarte, wehrstammbuch, demob chit from '45, a course certificate and a letter from the guy's father giving him dispensation to join the KM. Not to mention a very nice brass cut out framed relief of the destroyer Z-38 and a coloured certificate for crossing the arctic circle.

Here's the thing. His soldbuch is only for his few months service with the army in 39 not for his later KM career, his werhpass stops on the 21.11.42 and is left 'open' on the aktiver wehrdienst pages. The same goes for his wehrstammbuch, it is left 'open' with the same date. Now he obviously served throughout the war as his course certificate is dated to Aug. 44, interestingly the course was onboard the werkstattschiff Neumark which was in North Norway engaged in amongst other things repairing the Tirpitz after the attack by the X-craft mini-subs, it had earlier also been the auxilliary cruiser Widder. I also know he served onboard Z-38 from around 1943 onwards and that he survived the war to be discharged in July '45. But in his wehrpass and wehrstammbuch it all stops in Nov. 42.
So, what circumstances would lead these two documents to be left 'open' like that?


regards

Simon

[Ian Jewison]

Hi Simon,

So this is where the group went!? IMO the documents were probably due to be written and never were!

I have similar groups that have Soldbuch, Wehrpaß and Wehrstammbuch and the information contained within these documents builds a good picture of the person....however none have the same information!!! Some have extra details, some missing certain details, awards not being entered, the units pages kept upto date in the Soldbuch but not in Wehrpaß/Stammbuch.....etc.etc.

It would also depend on the combat situation whether or not the clerk would have time to fill in the said document...if in retreat chances are he would not do it!

Incidentally where did Z38 serve?

I suggest you contact the Deutsches Dienststelle (WASt) and ask for relevant info re: his service. I find that Kriegsmarine details always are plentiful whereas Heer and Luftwaffe not so......maybe it is where the documents were stored!

/Ian

[Ian Jewison]

Here is a bit of info you may or may not know....

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Qu...768/z38_1.html

[Simon O.]

Hi Ian
I think i will get in touch with the WASt. The website sums up Z-38's history quite well. My primary interest is the fact she served up here from Nov. 43 to Jan. 45, in fact she was one of the last 3 destroyers to leave Tromsø for the Baltic in Jan. 45.

The entries which are left open from 21.11.42 in both books is a shore posting in Germany, a training establishment to be exact.

It's just occured to me that the conclusion of this guys various courses etc. in '42 and the commissioning of the Z-38 in March 43 seem to dovetail quite nicely. I wonder if he was posted to the new ship and served onboard for her entire wartime career?




Simon

[Ian Jewison]

What unit was this?

[Simon O.]

5./ Kriegsschiffbaulehrabteilung, am i right in thinking this was a type of unit for working up on new ships?

[Ian Jewison]

Yes thats correct. With these units the members usually joined when the ship was in construction and stayed there until the ship went to sea....some stayed for trials and some served on the ship in combat, others either joining a new construction unit or combat ship.

I might have some info on this unit but they are usually hard to trace!
Maybe the ship he joined never went into active service.....and he was never transferred to another unit....

/Ian

[Simon O.]

He was Ian, The crossing the arctic circle certificate is both named to him and names Z-38, dated Nov.43, his course ceritificate was onboard the Neumark which was in North Norway in Aug '44 (Z-38 operating in these waters at the time too).

[Ian Jewison]

Sorry, I misunderstood you. I thought you meant he was abourd Z38 then went to 5./Kriegsschiffbaulehrabteilung.
This confirms that 5./ Kriegsschiffbaulehrabteilung was the construction unit for Z38 and that he served aboard her perhaps until 1945!
Again...they just never got round to filling it in!!!

The Wehrstammbuch was actually kept at his local recruiting station (Wehrbezirks or Wehrmeldeamt) and would only be updated if/when the appropriate documentation was sent from his unit...if nothing was recieved or misfiled then no entries would be made!

I have a Personalakte for a Kriegsmarine member who served aboard Z25 and one other Zerstörer.... I forget at the moment, however the the entry for Kriegsschiffbaulehrabteilung is entered and the date of "in service" for the new Zerstörer in 1943.......no further details are entered....I will check this out later as I am curious now!
This group consists of Personalakte folder with many Beurteilung, extracts for the Führungsbuch, Wehrstammuch which actually has no entries apart from name, DoB and addres of NoK!!!

I also have a Heer Wehrstammbuch that has no entries apart from a FP Nr...in the rear of the Buch there are many Beurteilung, Kreigsstammrollenblatt which tell you were he was, what units and awards, however for some reason the Buch itself was never kept upto date!!!

More later....

/Ian

[Simon O.]

A little more on our man.

He went through basic training with 1./8 Schiffsstammabteilung from 1.10.39 to 7.1.40. He then went on to further training with Marineschule Wesermünde before joining the Flottenbegleiter F 8 which was serving with the 25 U-Flottille, 4.4.40 to 25.9.41.

Now heres the tenuous link with an RKT , From Oct.38 to June '39 the F 8 was commanded by Korvettenkapitan Werner Dobberstein (RK 4.9.41) who was then posted to command the 8 Schiffsstammabteilung, June '39 to June '40