Request regarding the pak 36

[Simon O.]

Has anyone a wehrpass with an entry for being trained on the pak 36?

I simply wish to prove to someone that the term PAK 36 or 3.7cm PAK 36 was actually used during the war.



regards

Simon

[Ian Thomson]

Hi Simon, I`ve a few wehrpass with entries for the 3.7cm Pak I`ve attached a scan of one of them.

Cheers
Ian

[Angel Farré]

Here you have one from a Pak member.

Angel

[Simon O.]

Thanks guys, that was fast!

What i was after was an entry where it is refered to with the '36' included. e.g. 3,7cm pak 36 or pak 36.

I've gotten myself into a little argument you see



Simon

[Ian Thomson]

Sorry Simon, all my wehrpass and wehrstammbuch have it written the same way, Pak 3.7cm. I`ve got a wehrpass with the Flak 36 entered, which was also a 3.7cm weapon, dont no if thats any good to you.

Cheers
Ian

[Simon O.]

Thanks Ian.
This little argument i've gotten into is to do specifically with the pak 36. I have enough examples myself of other weapons with their nomenclature e.g. pak 40, le.I.G 18 etc. etc.

The person i'm disagreeing with claims that the term pak 36 or 3.7cm pak 36 is wrong and that the correct term is 3.7cm pak. I know both terms were used and of course almost all the books i have refer to it with the '36' it's just that i was after something from the period which included '36'.


kind regards

Simon

[Akira Takiguchi]

Checked quickly my library... Found two Dienstvorschriften regarding 3,7cm Pak... Both <b>D228</b> <i>Unterrichtsbuch f&uuml;r das Schie&szlig;en gen Panzerkampfwagen</i> and <b>D343</b> <i>Merkblatt f&uuml;r die Bek&auml;mpfung der russischen Panzer-kampfwagen</i> say <b>3,7cm Pak</b>, no trace of 36 anywhere.

On the other hand, 5cm Pak was clearly called as <b>Pak 38 (5cm)</b>.

It is impossible for me to prove that they never called it a <b>Pak 36</b>. Just one exception in official document will make your day... But for the time being, the situation looks somewhat against you...

[Ian Jewison]

I've just flicked through about 40 Wehrpaß for I.G. or Pz.Jäg. troops and I'm sorry to say I didn't find any mention of a Pak 36!!!!! 3.7, 5 cm but no 36......Sorry!

I will take a look through some other documents in a short while and post my findings....

/Ian

[Ian Jewison]

According to the "Handbook of German Military Forces" U.S. War Department 1.3.1945 (reprinted 1990 ISBN 0-8071-1629-7) the Pak 37 was 3.7 cm, Pak 38 5 cm and the Pak 36 7.62 cm...its true designation was 7.62 cm Pak 36 (russicshe) which was a german modified Russian field gun 296.....also the Pak 39 was of the same calibre.
The Flak 36 was 3.7.cm!?!?!??!?!

/Ian

[Simon O.]

Hi Ian
Yes there was also a 7.62cm Pak36 (r).
They got their intelligence a bit mixed up by calling the 3.7cm gun a pak 37, although i have seen it being called a pak 35\36.

Just to confuse matters more you had the 8.8cm flak 36 AND a 3.7cm Flak 36 not to mention the 8.8cm flak 18 AND the 3.7cm flak 18.

Akira
thanks too for looking. If no official documents seem to refer to it as the '36'. Then where did the number come from? particulary as the Germans numbered all their weapons such, even captured ones.

About the best reference i have is Ian V. Hogg's "German artillery of World War II"

please don't tell i'm gonna have to eat humble pie



regards

Simon

[Gary T]

Well, I've just done the same and of 24 people who are recorded as trained on this weapon all are Pak 3,7cm, with those pre-war trained being simply Pak. Of course this does not mean that it's offical designation wasn't Pak 36, but the Wehrmacht only had one AT weapon of that calibre so everyone knew what it meant. Similarly there are other entries to weapons using only the calibre and not the offical designation i.e Pak 4,7 cm (the Pak M36(t)).

I did have a book on the Pak 3.7cm but can't find it at the moment. I have seen it referred to as Pak 35/36 but do not know if this was it's official wartime designation.

The offical designation of the Russian weapon was 7,62cm Pak 36 (r). There was a Flak 18/36/37 that was a 3,7cm weapon but also a Flak 18/36/37 that was an 8,8cm weapon.

As every other German weapon from pistol, to grenade to Flak gun had the year in there somewhere I can't see why the Pak 3,7cm should be any different.

[Gary T]

Simon,

Just looked on the Panzer Museum Munster website and they have it as 3,7cm Pak 35/36.

Pak 35/36

So if its good enough for them...

I think its just the way the weapon was commonly referred to...how many British soldiers do you know who referred to the SLR as the L1A1?

Cheers,
Gary.

[Simon O.]

Thanks Gary
That's pretty much my point. I can understand it being refered to simply as the 3.7cm pak in many cases but i am pretty sure the official nomenclature is 3.7cm pak 36.


regards


Simon

[Frosch]

Wehrpass entry for PAK 36/37

Hello,

I have a Wehrpass with an entry in the training section on page 20 for the PAK and a separate entry for the Schützenabzeichen for the PAK 36/37 on page 21.

Since I am unable to post attachments (and I don't understand why not), the entries can be seen at http://www.zeltbahn.net/new/pak01.jpg and http://www.zeltbahn.net/new/pak02.jpg.

The Wehrpass was made out to Feldwebel Karl Herzner who served with 10./I.R., 17. Infanterie-Division. He was KIA on 26 January 1942 at Uprianowo. In addition to the shooting lanyard, he was also awarded the EK 1 (just over a week after his death - gemäß XXXXII. A.K.), EK 2 (laut Divisions-Befehl) and infantry assault badge (regimental award entry).

Trust this rather late reply to your post still does the trick, even if it only refers to the Schützenabzeichen.

Regards,

David Gregory
Dortmund, Germany

[Simon O.]

David
Thankyou very much, that's great


Regards

Simon