SS Dog Tag

[Kurt Student]

Greetings

Your opinions on this SS dog tag?
And how much do you think its worth?



tnx

Kurt,

[Matt L]

Apparently the Axis History Forum doesn't allow remote linking, so you'll have to either give us the link to the image Kurt, or re-post it here.

Matt

[Kurt Student]

There we go , Now you can check it out.


Kurt,

[Matt L]

Sorry Kurt, but I think that one's a fake- and not a very good one either. The unit didn't exist, and the Stammrollennummer is WAY WAY too high. There was no SS-Gebirgs-Artillerie-Abetilung 13- there was an SS-Gebirgs-Artillerie-REGIMENT 13, but no Abteilung. Also, there's no way there were a total of 26000 men in the 4. Batterie, even through the whole war- that's just ridiculous.

This being the case, it's not worth anything- I sure hope you were just consdiering buying it and haven't done so yet.

Matt

[Kurt Student]

Greets,

Here are his exact words : "SS division Handsar.

4/ss geb.A.A.13 4 schwadron SS gebirgs Aufklärungs Abteilung 13

4 platoon SS observed unit 13"

He has a metal detector and goes digging across his country , cant belive it that this could be a fake ...



Kurt,

[Gaspare]

even if the unit did exist I wouldn't touch it..The stamps are so generic that even one marginally skilled in making these could pop out a few believable ones if they used their heads....

[Matt L]

Ah, well there was an SS-Aufkl******228;rungs-Abteilung (mot.) 13 in the 13.Waffen-Gebrigs-Division der SS Handschar (kroatische Nr.1), but nowhere do I find it ever designated 'Gebirgs'. Now given that it's likely that all the sources probably get the information from a single source (Tessin), it is possible that the unit designation change was simply missed- especially if it occurred late in the war and the records of it were lost. There is, however, no proof of this and it would only be something I'd consider if the disc were dug up by someone I knew and trusted, and that really looked authentic, but this one just doesn't- the markings look suspicious and there's still the problem of the unbelievably high Stammrollennummer. Even for the most general Ersatz units, one VERY rarely sees a number as high 26000

Just because someone honestly dug up a disc doesn't mean it's real at all. Fakes get thrown away too. It's also possible that they are be planted by fakers in an attempt to validate their fakes- someone honest digs one up, people believe it has to be real because the person is trustworthy, and then the faker can sell more junk because the one they planted is accepted as authentic. This is a practice that has been used for all kinds of fakes from art to documents.

So, while we can't say 100% for sure that this disc is a fake, there's nothing authentic-looking about it at all, and there are multiple problems that suggest it's a fake.

When it comes to SS discs especially, it is necessary to have good evidence or actual proof that it's authentic for it to have any value. In this case neither is possible at this point, so unfortunately I'd still consider it worthless.

Matt

[Kurt Student]

BTW the price was 200 euros ,

which I would never give for something like this

[Matt L]

HOLY COW- that's crazy, especially for a very questionable disc. Is it someone you know personally who is selling it?

Matt

[Kurt Student]

Nope , A friend of a guy I know

[mr.dogtag]

Hello,
I think that the tag is ok. The typeface is absolutely correct and similar to other authentic SS-Handschar tags I have seen. Also the 5-digit stammrolle is another thing in common to other 13 Div. tags.
This is maybe not an usual thing but used to happen in different units.
Probably different army/divisional units were assigned a range of stammrolle numbers. I have several tags of small units ( like bakery etc) with 4 or 5 digit numbers. So this is ok with me.
Finally I have bought the tag, but cheaper than it was mentioned here .
Regards
Al

[Kurt Student]

You bought it from this guy ? How much did you pay?

[Simon O.]

I'd just like to add the the Heer at least did not name their Aufklärungs abteilungen attached to mountain divisions, Gebirgs-.
I believe the SS were the same but the sources i have for the W-SS are all secondary.

[mr.dogtag]

Simon, I think you are not fully right. Tessin mentions different Gebirgs Aufklarung Abteilungen as well as SS-Geb.A.Abtln.
All best
Al

[Matt L]

Quite so- I also saw that there were a few SS-Gebirgs-Aufklärungs-Abteilungen in other Divisionen, but SS-Aufklärungs-Abteilung (mot.) 13 isn't listed as ever having 'Gebirgs' in its designation.

Now I too have a small number of discs with 5-digit Stammrollennummern- 5 Sanitäts-Ersatz-Abteilung, 1 Panzer-Ersatz-Abteilung, and 1 SS Erstaz Bataillon- so I certainly know that 26000+ isn't completely unheard of. However it was the fact that these are all Ersatz units, which can be expected to have high numbers in the latter stages of the war, while this disc is an actual field unit that bothered me. Are the discs you have, Al, from Ersatz or from field units?

Matt