Just thought I'd share this interesting find with the forum. Today, I purchased several Wehrpasses and Soldbuchs from a local collector in San Diego. The one that made me buy the entire stack was this Wehrpass to an individual named Josef Leitz.
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As you can see, Leitz was a member of the Luftwafe before entering the SS. -
Here's his photo.Comment
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What made me buy the piece, though, were his service entries - two entries for the concentration camp Mittelbau, and one in the SS Totenkopf Wachbattalion stationed at Sachenhausen!Comment
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Where it really gets interesting - I did a search online, as part of the battery of research actions I take with any named item that comes in, and what do I find?
www.leitz-wein.de
Apparently, our friendly neighborhood concentration camp guard went on to run a winery after the war. The reason I know it's the same person is because the winery is in Rudensheim, which is the same city that Mr. Leitz of my Wehrpass was born! More research showed that he was actually the same person who ran the winery (also an internet search revealed this).
Just goes to show what interesting material can be dug up on named items. Also goes to show that lots of bad-acting people (I'm assuming he wasn't a nice fellow, being a guard at these camps) went back to lead quite normal and peaceful lives following the war.Comment
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Hi Craig, that is a nice find. I too love research
The transfer of men from the Luftwaffe into the SS late in the war was quite commonplace and very often it was into units such as those that this man served in. I doubt he had much choice in the matter?
Thanks for showing it.
Cheers, Ade.Comment
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Thanks for the post. Regarding choice, I have read in books such as "Those Were The Days" (a very important read, if you have not read it) that camp duty, while not voluntary, was not coerced. That is, if you couldn't stomach the duty there, you could opt out and put in for a rotation. Of course, a rotation out of the camps usually meant directly into the line of fire on one of the fronts. So, while our man may have had a choice, his choice was not a good one.
This is what I love about the hobby - we get the chance, as a result of buying something, to learn a great deal about a particular subject. For example, this is going to be my jumping-off point for a study of Sachenhausen.
Also, as an aside, does anyone have a rough estimate, a value range, of this piece? I think it gets extra "juice" because of the concentration camp connection, and perhaps, if you are also a wine collector, the wine connection
Haha.
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Forced to Obey Orders?
Craig,
If you are interested in the coercion topic, I would suggest (read shameless plug) that you read my masters thesis in Modern German History. The title is, Forced to Obey Orders? The Opportunity Available for SS Men to Refuse to Commit Genocide. One of my secondary sources was the Good Old Days book but I also used a variety of sources to include primary ones. The most important one I believe was the Einsatzgruppen trial proceedings. I have the capabilities to forward the six chapters via email as attachments. It is 106 pages and was completed in 2000. My personal email is:
kabarick@charter.net
Sincerely,
Kurt Barickman
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Kurt: I would LOVE to read the work. Please email it to me at craig@craiggottlieb.com. Did you ever look into the degree of "shirking" that seemed to occur, the closer one got to the actual killing. In my reading, the people at the beginning of the killing chain were able to rationalize their actions internally, and therefore didn't do a lot of shirking (you didn't see a lot of railway officials refusing to load people in railway cars, since their part in the equation wasn't as palpably deadly). However, as you move down the line, you see more and more shirking occuring as the tasks get closer and closer to the actual trigger-pulling and gassing. When you get that far, you see a LOT of shirking of duty, which went unpunished. You saw, for example, many soldiers, sneaking back to the "unloading duty" and avoiding the actual shooting duty. In any event, I look forward to reading your thesis, and also encourage conversation about the wehrpass (I don't want to sound too "preachy" on the subject).
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Hello Craig,
a bunch of these wehrpass have been floating around lately,there has been at least 4 posted on this forum in the last few months,i have seen 2 for sale by local dealers,either someone just found a large grouping of them or someone sold a collection with a large number of these,they are all the same ,luftwaffe men transfer to the SS,the units were all filled out by the same hand (same clerk)the units are the same unit just the name changed,the stammrollen number is the same (617)(thanks Gary for that bit of info that was overlooked earlier!) a number of dealers have them for sale,i know the 2 i saw for sale were $200-$300 ,im not sure what the bigger dealers were asking,do a search of this forum and you will find a number of discussions on these wehrpass.Comment
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Yancy is correct on the background of these particular WP. IMO, would estimate value of your WP at $400 tops, and that is a stretch. At $795 that is way overpriced...and now on hold?Last edited by Edward; 11-07-2005, 07:23 PM.Comment
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Originally posted by Edward
Jesus...these people really need to learn how to use the internet. One sold on militaria.de for 80 Euros last week. If they just did a google search they'd find tens of them on dealers sites ranging from 150 Euros to 800 Euros+ If they looked at the online auctions they'd get them cheaper.
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Agreed. Yancy gives him pretty much the top going rate and he doubles the price. LOLOriginally posted by Gary T Jesus...these people really need to learn how to use the internet. One sold on militaria.de for 80 Euros last week. If they just did a google search they'd find tens of them on dealers sites ranging from 150 Euros to 800 Euros+ If they looked at the online auctions they'd get them cheaper.
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= = = Apparently, our friendly neighborhood concentration camp guard went on to run a winery after the war. The reason I know it's the same person is because the winery is in Rudensheim, which is the same city that Mr. Leitz of my Wehrpass was born! More research showed that he was actually the same person who ran the winery (also an internet search revealed this).= = =
This is a big statement you make. I would however like to know if you contacted the winery to check this out. Did they confirm this, didn't react to the question, or......???
CheersComment
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