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**Matt L** · 10-26-2005, 12:50 AM

Hi Askold,

That one's questionable- I find no such unit listed anywhere. There seem to be only a handful of units specifically denoted 'Ukrainische' in their titles, and none is Nachrichten-Bataillon 102. In fact, there is no Nachrichten-Bataillon 102 listed at all. Normally Nachrichten units are Abteilungen, not Bataillone- although there are a couple of exceptions listed. All this being the case, I'd pass on this one as being too likely a fake.

Matt

**Gaspare** · 10-26-2005, 10:50 AM

Please someone correct me if wrong,,,,,,The 14th SS div. was called the 'ukrainische Nr.1' for only a very short time late 44.. For me this tag is supposed to represent Shandruks men in 45..That late in the war and with that 'Army' anything was possible for a battalion... Is the tag a 'good' one? ,,hard to really see the stamps from the photos, you'd have to get it in hand to play the match and compare game........ , G.

**Askold** · 10-26-2005, 12:09 PM

Thanks a lot Matt for clearing things up! It was a red flag for me the moment it said "Latvia"

Gaspare:

I don't think is from UNA. Even though the division changed its name, no new dog tags were issued. Majority of soldiers retained thier old ones. The newly formed division in Slovakia (that is when they changed to Ukrainische) was in short supply of weapons and clothing - so I don't thing they had the luxury of obtaining the new dog tags. Finally - no 102 Bat. was ever mentioned in Galicia division.

Cheers

**Gaspare** · 10-26-2005, 02:31 PM

Askold , the tag is a tough call from the photo.. I put little faith in orders of battle for such a Army as the UNA.. There are still unanswered questions about them and too late in the war, batls could have been made up on paper without the proper amount of men just to help them 'belong' to the unit and from being repatriated to Russia ....

If its not UNA and its from the 14thSS Galicia or its training and replacement unit,, where are the SS runes? , G.

**Askold** · 10-26-2005, 04:34 PM

Gaspare,

If its not UNA and its from the 14thSS Galicia or its training and replacement unit,, where are the SS runes? , G.

I never said the dog tag was from Galicia division

As much as I hate it, but is seems that Matt is correct and its a fake. When I come home tonight - I'll check my lists of Ukr. battalions just to make sure.

P.S. Silly question, but what does "Nachrichten" means?

**Gaspare** · 10-26-2005, 05:03 PM

sorry

I thought you were meaning the 14th..Ukrainian formations are sometimes confusing...

"Nachrichten" , it would be for communications..

**Matt L** · 10-27-2005, 01:30 PM

Well just like any other reference, OOBs can't be taken as 100% accurate, of course- but just like any other evaluation of an Erkennungsmarke, one must take what information one has

Certainly just because the unit isn't listed doesn't mean it didn't exist- but a disc like this, in my opinion, must be assumed to be fake until demonstrated to be more likely real than fake. So I consider the unit not being listed anywhere and it being a 'different' type, to both be negatives. Moreover, I see nothing that would suggest the disc is real- so have to revert to the default that there's just too much of a chance that it's fake to risk buying it unless it's really cheap (which it's not).

I'd never say for sure that something's a fake unless I can back it up with a good deal of evidence, which I can't do for this one. There are a very small number of Nachrichten-Bataillone listed, so that oddity isn't entirely unheard of, and there are said to have been a number of 'new' units hastily formed near the end of the war that might never have made it into official records (or they were lost). So there are exceptions to both of the negatives I suggested, which is why the disc cannot be said to be for sure fake based on these features. It is indeed possible that both of these exceptions are present here- but then the more exceptions that have to occur, the less likely something really is true.

Matt

**Askold** · 10-28-2005, 12:33 AM

Thanks for the imput Matt. I just checked my list of Ukrainian units.
The unit wich was numbered 102 was a police battalion formed in Kiev and later moved to France. It was a "Ukrainische Sicherungs". - not sure if its the same as "nachrichten".
Also, in 1945 there was 4th Ukrainian company of 102 bat. in the army group North. If we consider that members of army group North might end up in Baltic - then the dog tag is possibly real.

Cheers

**Matt L** · 10-28-2005, 12:15 PM

Hi Askold,

No, Nachrichten is definitely not the same as Sicherungs- Sicherungs is 'security'- nothing at all like signals.

Matt

**mr.dogtag** · 10-30-2005, 04:39 AM

I would say this comes from Nachschub Bataillon 102. I don't know whether the tag is ok or not. However Nachsch. Btl.102 consisted of 4 Turmen coys. Tessin does not mention anything about Ukr. Kpn. however I think that it is quite possible that there were some.
Regards
Al

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