Fake TDB Group

[Jochen1000]

I just noted this group popping up again. I saw it about a year ago at the Kassel fair when I told that dealer who had it that it was fake. As usual he did not return it but quietly moved it on. So here it is again. Both award documents are fake and of course also the award entry page. The dealer who has it now has nothing to do with faking it, it was already like that before he had it. But still, such crap must not be moved on but returned to the faker.

Here are the pictures and a before and after of the award page. It is perhaps a good example for such fakes - which is important because the market is recently flooded with such crap. Just that one dealer in Kassel had five of those groups, and recently we really see tons of those which all seem to come from the same factory.

[hucks216]

That is well done and must admit it fooled me (I'm not the buyer) especially when they have used the same signature on page 3 to tie in the entries with those entries having to be red flagged as well. That reminds me of the Anti-Partisan Badge Soldbuch & and citation that did the rounds a couple of years ago.

Baldes 010.jpg Previous Award Page.jpg image_4728700.jpg

[HouweTrouwe]

I'm the unfortunate dealer who had it most recent in hand. Of course I will refund the buyer and I am ashamed it passed my hands. I initially had doubts on the Mokros signature but since I have no late war references in hand of his signatur, and the fact that the story, units of the Soldbuch checked out well I did give it a shot. It is stomach turning, especially as a new business that this happens. I hope I don't suffer from it. Could you also name the disgraceful nutjob of a dealer who clearly sold this under the table and made more victims? It is also a costly mistake for me. Glad you point out that I had nothing to do with it but I ashamed that it passed my hands.

Yours truly
Bart of www.wolfganghistorica.com

[Brian R]

It is stomach turning, especially as a new business that this happens. I hope I don't suffer from it.

Bart - You should be fine as your intent was not to mislead. These things happen to all of us.

I too agree that both the award documents are fake. Do you have a close up of the EK document you could post?

Thanks,
Brian

[HouweTrouwe]

Bart - You should be fine as your intent was not to mislead. These things happen to all of us.

I too agree that both the award documents are fake. Do you have a close up of the EK document you could post?

Thanks,
Brian

Dear Brian
If I was offered the Award docs alone, I would have not taken them and doubting the authenticity, which I honestly already did for the EK urkunde and the signature of Mokros. I however, got fooled, due the Soldbuch was I thought was good, the awards seem to be fairly good done. Which fooled me. And I am saddened this happened. I again want to know which dealer sold this further and fooled more people. It's just shameful. Especially since he did know.
Yours truly,

[Brian R]

Yeah, it’s a shame. I agree that the SB is really convincing. I don’t see how you did anything wrong.

Any straight images of the EK document?

[HouweTrouwe]

Yeah, it’s a shame. I agree that the SB is really convincing. I don’t see how you did anything wrong.

Any straight images of the EK document?

Here's an good image of the document.

[Jochen1000]

It could have fooled all of us - there is nothing to be ashamed of. The problem is the quantity of those things. They are now pumping out those fakes at an outrageous speed. As I said, that one seller alone had several groups. At the last Bene Merenti auction I saw about 6 (!) groups which I believe are coming from the same source (of which one was the Berlin Volkssturm group recently posted here).

The seller who had these items there was named Roger. Is that a match or who do you have it from? I am sure he was not the faker though, I believe the production is in Berlin.

[Jochen1000]

By the way, when I initially bought the soldbuch there was a price of below 100 Euro noted on the back of the back cover (in the upper corner). Are there still traces of it?

[SJP]

This guy has been around quite awhile.I bought Totenkopf Gp at the SOS several years back.I found similar Grps like posted on this forum .So studied mine closer a determined it was excellent Fake.Fortunately I have a large collection of TK documents and one from the same Pz regiment had a completely different stamp even though they were both issued around the same time.The key to these is the stamp
I saw him at next SOS and got my $$$ back. He was from Germany also.
Cheers Steve

[stgeorge64]

I'm the unfortunate dealer who had it most recent in hand. Of course I will refund the buyer and I am ashamed it passed my hands. I initially had doubts on the Mokros signature but since I have no late war references in hand of his signatur, and the fact that the story, units of the Soldbuch checked out well I did give it a shot. It is stomach turning, especially as a new business that this happens. I hope I don't suffer from it. Could you also name the disgraceful nutjob of a dealer who clearly sold this under the table and made more victims? It is also a costly mistake for me. Glad you point out that I had nothing to do with it but I ashamed that it passed my hands. Yours truly Bart of www.wolfganghistorica.com

Bart, your integrity is intact and is there for all to see. I don't think for a moment that anyone thinks you were the one that embellished these documents.

Just by the fact that you are prepared to offer a full refund sets you apart from countless dealers, who who simply refuse to do so regardless of the evidence.

Regards Richard.

[HouweTrouwe]

By the way, when I initially bought the soldbuch there was a price of below 100 Euro noted on the back of the back cover (in the upper corner). Are there still traces of it?

Yes, don't know what the exact wording is above "80" though.

[HouweTrouwe]

Bart, your integrity is intact and is there for all to see. I don't think for a moment that anyone thinks you were the one that embellished these documents.

Just by the fact that you are prepared to offer a full refund sets you apart from countless dealers, who who simply refuse to do so regardless of the evidence.

Regards Richard.

I did offer and paid a full refund to the buyer. Sadly, I am just somewhat ashamed it passed my hands. Although I had troubles with the Mokros signature, the Soldbuch somehow convinced me.

[Angel Farré]

This things happen, I was burned twice with TDB groups in the past. I sold them with clearly marked as copies and one resurfaced with my mark erased in a very known dealer site, when I inform him he immediately withdrawn the piece and thank me for the warning.

Don't be afraid, your reputation is intact, not all dealers/collectors are willing to accept that has been ripped.

Keep going and you know, in doubt ask for further opinions.

Angel