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**Peter J.** · 01-19-2020, 04:19 PM

Hi Sanya,

I'll swim against the flow on this one (not the first time

), but I don't think this cross is legit. I saw a KVK1 in similar size a few years ago, don't believe in that one either. As for the Zimmermann hoard, the discussion abruptly ended when I inquired about the actual address of their factory (two different locations were suggested in that thread).

cheers
Peter

**sanya13** · 01-19-2020, 05:26 PM

Hí Peter
I thx your opinion ,than always .

I can't decide who made this little cross and when it was made, but there will always be pieces that are new or unprecedented all this 75 years after and we yet never saw ago such or similar pieces .
Of course, they cannot be 100% proven, as they do not remain beyond doubt evidence, but in my opinion, not a modern made piece.

But this is fact ,that a interesting piece.

**sanya13** · 01-23-2020, 06:05 PM

Today arrived this the 12 x 12 mm EK2 mini with paper.
interesting that very similar the date numbers type on the two pieces.
What do you think about it

Attached Files

**boch_62** · 01-24-2020, 02:16 AM

I would not risk saying that they are the same producers, sorry. IMO

Regards
Jarek

**sanya13** · 01-24-2020, 04:46 AM

Thx Jarek your opinion ,Yes I agree ,yet the frame pattern too a little similarity ,but not full and little vague .

**tiu*kwu** · 01-25-2020, 02:04 PM

Hi Sanya,

I agree with Peter's opinion and I'm pretty sure that both EK miniatures are not authentic.

Oliver

**sanya13** · 01-25-2020, 04:01 PM

Hí Oliver
Sorry my friend ,but the EK2 mini with paper no doubt it's just a piece from the original ww2 era, I don't know what you base your post on ?

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru....php?t=1027290

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...26991#poststop

Originally posted by tiu*kwu View Post

Hi Sanya,

I agree with Peter's opinion and I'm pretty sure that both EK miniatures are not authentic.

Oliver

**tiu*kwu** · 01-26-2020, 11:30 AM

Hi Sanya,

the following criteria differ from genuine EK2 miniatures:
* atypical dimensions (12 mm x 12 mm instead of 16 mm x 16 mm),
* atypical coating (shines and looks like enamel, raised areas not coated),
* atypical marking (company name instead of LDO marking),
* atypical surface (rough edge of the frame).

Oliver

**tiu*kwu** · 01-26-2020, 11:43 AM

Hi Sanya,

the following criteria differ from genuine EK1 miniatures:

* atypical dimensions (28 mm x 28 mm instead of 16 mm x 16 mm or 9 mm x 9 mm),
* atypical fastening mechanism (movable pin instead of fixed pin),
* atypical way of wearing (not for uniform and not for civil suit).

Oliver

**Douglas 5** · 01-26-2020, 01:34 PM

Interesting that the size should come up here . These both minis I would say are early .
We have early EK2s = UB crosses and oversized KvK 2nd class . I am not surprized the "minis" started out larger as well .
The EK1 mini I have to say is a Deschler made piece .
The stick pin I am not sure of .

Douglas

Attached Files

**Douglas 5** · 01-26-2020, 01:39 PM

I see now the stick pin was posted earlier and is a Preissler made piece ... may have used a Deschler to copy from ??

Douglas

**sanya13** · 01-26-2020, 05:49 PM

Hí Oliver

IMO exist there are many variations and even after 75 years that time, new and new pieces are coming up,it cannot be said that it was so this like a book ---
when it was released was up to date but things have changed over time ,butthe book stay .

Originally posted by tiu*kwu View Post

Hi Sanya,

the following criteria differ from genuine EK2 miniatures:
* atypical dimensions (12 mm x 12 mm instead of 16 mm x 16 mm),
* atypical coating (shines and looks like enamel, raised areas not coated),
* atypical marking (company name instead of LDO marking),
* atypical surface (rough edge of the frame).

Oliver

Attached Files

**sanya13** · 01-26-2020, 05:56 PM

Hí my friend ,THX the comment ,yes IMO too have similarity with the Deschler frame pattern , you are have always good eyes and you notice / discover the little details.

**Peter J.** · 01-27-2020, 02:48 PM

Hi Sanya,
I agree, not everything from the 3rd Reich has surfaced during the last 80 years (but nor has any Prinzengrösse 1939 EK1 to my knowledge), hence extra scrutiny needs to be exercised. I’ll start with the “halfsize).

My spontaneous reflection, what was the purpose of this product? It would hardly be worn by a military person in uniform, which leaves only for wear on civilian clothes. Unless you wanted to saw on a medal loop (which would make the suit look strange without the decoration), you had to press it through the fabric, thereby creating a substantial hole and ruin the suit. Ek’s per se is not my cup of the´ though, perhaps some enlightened collector can point me in a different direction.

I’ve previously inquired about the production technique of the dies for producing EK (or KC) frames. Were they engraved by hand or made in a reduction machine (as suggested by Douglas)? It’s really no use for me trying to elaborate any farther, but I’ll once I get this confirmed one way or the other.
The stickpin mini gives more food for thoughts and I’ll try to break it down. Oliver summoned his concerns pretty well, but the matter of size needs to be commented. The official size for minis of orders and decorations in general was 9mm and 16mm once the regulations kicked in. I’ve seen them ranging from 7-18mm (even some obscure (IMHO) 19mm versions. With that said, other sizes than 9 or 16mm exist in contemporary sales lists. Sanya, are all three stickpin versions illustrated here the 12mm version? It’s difficult to keep track of the three versions you’ve posted, but as I understand it it’s one enameled with Preissler, one unmarked with enamel and one unmarked with no enamel, correct? Can you please repost them separately with size and obverse+reverse. To be continued…

The alleged producer Preissler is also worth looking into. He doesn’t have a L-number or PK-number, nor is he listed as a producer of insignia (RZM M1/…). He’s shown as a producer of day badges though (RZM M9/118), but that’s a far cry from the previously mentioned categories.

I'm sorry for my ignorance, can you please give me the full name of the German forum you referred to

Cheers
Peter

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**Dietrich Maerz** · 01-27-2020, 03:04 PM

Based on the mindset of the NSDAP regarding the Imperial times the official sanctioning of a “Prinzen” version of the highest military order of the Third Reich is IMHO unthinkable. There were no Prinzen and there was no need for it, apart from the basic “socialist” attitude in the regulations of the Iron Cross itself.

The use of the term “Prinzen” for the smaller Spange for the EK2 of 1914 is another misnomer, born as so many times out of ignorance and lack of study. The Spange Prinzen”-version is for the Grosse Ordensschnalle and has nothing to do with any Prinzen tradition of Imperial times. Prinzen and Third Reich are like water and oil!

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