The Lüdenscheid Display

[Leroy]

That's a great observation, Tony, as to the manufacturer of the RK-KVK's. As to the frosting, though, I think it's been "absorbed" over the years rather than removed.

[martin hall]

Hi William,

First, congrats on your find, very nice, very interesting & well done. I too would like to learn the details regarding the OL, OLS and backstory of the collection.

Kind regards,
E.

Can only agree , outstanding , and congrats all looking forward to the backstory .

[Tony T-S]

Leroy, yes you’re right, absorbed rather than removed. It’s actually interesting that the maker of the display went for reduced quality with these two when compared to the other examples.

[Steve Mezey]

Awesome!

WOW X 2!
Amazing find, Kudos to you William!
Steve

[pavels_2005]

Fantastic pieces!!!!
Congratulation!

Best regards
Pavel

[Leroy]

Leroy, yes you’re right, absorbed rather than removed. It’s actually interesting that the maker of the display went for reduced quality with these two when compared to the other examples.

I bet when they were first obtained the RK-KVK's were beautiful.

[90th Light]

Hello William,

thank you for letting me know about this find. Wow what a find, amazing condition is a serious understatement

Here is a comparison with my Deumer Oaks & Swords. Both seem to show a similar level of hand finishing to the swords and sword handles,

Chris

[all1knew]

Just fantastic. Would it be possible to post good photos front and back of the KM badges in the KM forum? It would be a treat to see which makers they are, especially the 2nd pattern S-Boat since there isn’t a known Lüdenscheid-based maker of that one.

Best regards,
—-Norm

These badges are sewn directly to the removable backing boards and I don't want to tear into what's there; it took a lot of effort to get this badge out without breaking the threads but I was successful after some time. I hope this helps you in your quest to find a Lüdenscheid-based maker for this badge - that would be quite monumental for the hobby.

the swastika on this piece is like a mirror, the reverse is semi-scooped. Interestingly enough, there is what looks like wood and green thread almost attached to the rear hinge area. This is entirely different from the case thread itself which attaches the award to the backing as that is a cream color. I can't explain that for a badge which I would consider unissued and basically direct from the factory.

William Kramer

[all1knew]

I bet when they were first obtained the RK-KVK's were beautiful.

what I find most amazing is the presence of this coating. You can just barely see it flaking off. You can really see it on the swastika in the first image.

Unfortunately, it did little to prevent the original silver finish from evaporating away on either of the RK des KvK's

William Kramer

[90th Light]

The reverse of your second pattern S-boot reminds me of the reverse, pin and hook of the unknown maker of this type of first pattern S-Boot.

I wonder if they are by the same maker ?

Chris

[Norm F]

The reverse of your second pattern S-boot reminds me of the reverse, pin and hook of the unknown maker of this type of first pattern S-Boot.

I wonder if they are by the same maker ?

Chris

No, not the same in my opinion. The first is attributed to Rettenmaier (and unknown whether wartime or post-war) while the second (William's) is attributed to Deumer (again unknown whether wartime or post-war). I'll post more comments in a separate thread in the KM section.

Best regards,
---Norm

[all1knew]

Are you able to see the details of the back of the oaks and oaks and swords ? Are they flat or concave and how are the ends of the ribbon loops finished ?

the backs on both sets are polished like a mirror. I do not see silver content markings. These are sewn down and not entirely removable so I tried to make do with what I had to work with.

William Kramer

[all1knew]

Weitze had one a while back (and may still)

Was predominantly S&L but with a few Assman pieces mixed in. If it was a "salesman's display" why on earth would S&L be carting around Assman products such as the flak badge "to sell" when they themselves produced a flak badge?

Minor differences in the exterior master case color (black vs. blue) to mine but overall the construction is nearly identical.

It doesn't really make sense that this is a salesman's display per say as there are numerous makers presented here. Considering the RK and DK weren't allowed for commercial sale after 1944 you wouldn't think a salesman would be running around with them as a salesman's display.

Additionally, I believe there was a theory previously that these oak sets are only silver-plated. When you take that into account, and the fact the Schickles do not have a silver frame, and the Knights Cross of the War Merit Crosses are zinc, this probably was a display but for another purpose. For some reason, it appears the zinc RK Des KvK's were purposefully produced NOT in a precious metal (silver, like the normal awarded types) and the Schickle RK's may have been reserved for this purpose as well after they ceased to exist after 1941. Did makers produce awards for the sole purpose of display and never intended certain pieces to be awarded types? It would almost seem logical.

To say this is a giant postwar mockup is problematic for me as why go to the extent to produce this master case? It is made of similar leatherette exterior and velvet-like interior as seen on some Luftwaffe badge cases. With the war being over would somebody have gone to all that trouble? If not, then this likely had a wartime purpose and is has been suggested this may have been somewhat of a patriotic museum display of some sort.

William Kramer

[all1knew]

yet a third known of this type came from Summer Vacation Militaria some time back and is a black variation of the master case.

William Kramer

[all1knew]

so my case came out of England. Also with it was this armband and assorted English insignia with letters address to a Mrs. D. Stuart Brown.

upon research of the British patches, 30th Corps was within the English 8th Army who fought in Afrika and Sicily. Then they were involved in the Rhine crossing and Reichswald Forest.. then at the end of the war went onto Geldern with the US 9th Army which is part of the Düsseldorf region and only 62 miles from Lüdenscheid.

Only elongated oak swords came from Lüdenscheid from both Steinhauer & Luck and Deumer (that I know of)

there is a very interesting photograph which Leroy/Gentry posted some time ago showing a pair of Brit soldiers showing off an elongated sword pattern. The soldier on the right wears the shoulder patch of the Control Commission Germany, established June, 1945

I can't prove anything with the letters and English insignia, but it is rather suggestive.

William Kramer