LDO Case with PKZ EK / vice versa

[lakesidetrader]

Hi Guys,
I often encounter a LDO marked Case with a PKZ marked EK or an LDO marked EK in a non LDO marked case (sometimes even with the cardstock carton) and LDO with LDO and PKZ with unmarked case.
What I am wondering is what is considered “Textbook”? I have a claimed veteran piece in this scenario.
Thanks again for your expertise.
Paul

[speedrider]

Hi
In My Eyes it is Not Textbook.
But it is possible,Nobody Knows when
The crosses Came into the cases.

We can See often deumer cases for PKZ
With cross out of the Box and L/11 stamp
In white on the
Bottum of the Box.
The crosses Mostly Early Pin Types L/11 Stamped

Regards matze

[lakesidetrader]

Thanks Matze. We also see LDO paper inserts in unmarked cases and full maker marked cases...
Love to know the answer to this.

[Dietrich Maerz]

One can only go by what was the prescribed rule at the times.

LDO cases had to be marked as such after March 1941
Private retail pieces had to be marked as such after March 1941
Before that time all crosses and all cases were unmarked (maybe a maker, but no PKZ or LDO mark)
After end 1942/early 1943 crosses delivered to the PKZ were marked with the PKZ number.
Cases were unmarked, bags had the name of the maker, but no LDO or PKZ number.

This allows for some correct combinations, such as:
LDO marked cross in LDO case or LDO bag
PKZ marked crosses in unmarked case (EK1) and named bag (EK2)
Unmarked crosses in unmarked cases (EK1) or named bags (EK2)

Other combinations might be possible since it is very easy to pair crosses with cases or bags. What is not correct is to have an LDO-marked EK1 as an award piece. Or a PKZ-marked piece awarded before end of 1942/early 1943. I also would rule out a PKZ marked cross with an LDO case. Was for sure not originaly sold as such and mixed up later. An LDO-marked cross in an unmarked case with outer carton is IMHO also not original. Outer cartons were for award pieces, not for private bought ones.

There are basically two mistakes that can be spotted: mistakes against the time line of the numbering system and mistakes against the distribution channels and their regulations.

However, since most of collectors and dealers are not aware of these facts, the mix up of crosses with cases is common place.

Dietrich

[lakesidetrader]

Thanks Dietrich. I've seen so many combinations...
How about an LDO marked piece in an unmarked case?
Any thoughts on the paper insert?
Any thoughts on the proper case for dual (LDO and PKZ) marked EKs?

[speedrider]

Hi Maybe
It is possible.
A solider Recieved His Ek1 in Field in a case,
The doc and the case is Going Home.
Later He goes Home for Holiday or marriage
And Need a shiny Award on his jacket,
He goes to the trader a Buy an L/ marked
Award,After He is Going back to the war
He put this cross in the PkZ case.
This is only 1 possible way,and i think there a
Lot of different ways.

Just think about the normal awards Like ek1
How Many Owners just 1 normal ek1 can have
In Times of Collectors,Dealers,and other People
WHO make some Money with militaria

I only Collect LDO cases and matching Sets.
Regards matze

[speedrider]

And Remember the LDO Cases for EK1 Are Mostly
Universal cases for Verwundeten Abzeichen Gold,
Kriegsverdienstkreuz 1 Klasse or EK1.

[sanya13]

yes I agree with Dietrich
for me too have ,probably my paired piece
but I left it as I bought it.

EK2 mm & unmarked Schauerte & Hohfeld

[Robert P.]

VERY nice, Speedrider and Sanya.

Robert

[speedrider]

Thank you robert!

Regards

[jcwater]