EK1 spange opinions please

[Patrick W]

Hi Guys,

I thought this was a Juncker at first glance but looking closer the details are different- is this a copy?

many thanks for any opinions,

Patrick

[sanya13]

yet not saw such type ,but this """ head """HEJJJJJ very hard

[CMSgt]

spange

I would not buy, look at the date box and all the pebbles are in a straight row which is the sign of a Robot fake. As Sanya said the head is also weird. Jim

[tinmantis]

I'm somewhat out of date on spangen, but there does look like some junker in that, and it reminds me of the 'intermediate' unknown 2nd class design, which I've yet to see it's 1st class brother... like to hear more from other members
regards
jon

[Patrick W]

Just bringing this back up with some better photos and a link to a possible 2nd class by the same unknown maker- I am pretty sure this clasp is actually period but it remains the only one I have seen

[Patrick W]

here is a 1st pattern 2nd class spange sold by Weitze last year- the 2 seem clearly related in terms of design features.

Note also the same redish base metal- this is typical of early Meybauer production so possibly this is an early trial from them before they settled on their now known 1st pattern design?

[CMSgt]

spange

Hi Patrick, part of the bird is good (head & shoulders) (showed up in second style) but the pebbling is straight and Juncker didn't use this style (as far as I can find). Also, looking at the back the knee joints are missing. The pin looks to be the correct style for Juncker. I would still pass as because of the differences that I mentioned. Your call. Jim

[Patrick W]

Thanks Jim but it's not a Juncker nor is it pretending to be- the style is just somewhat similar - please see my post above for another clasp which is clearly from the same unknown maker

[Jean-Claude]

No expert but IMO nothing to do with Juncker but I like it!

You cant compare outer details because hand finishing is never the same but if you compare the "inner details" of the die that are not affected by hand finishing they are very different

1) breast feathering is much smaller & denser (more feathers) than Juncker

2) Talons have visible inner talons on both sides (on Juncker they are not visible)

3) Straight upper beak without the small "dip" (visible on Juncker)

4) Eye area detail is different than Juncker (pupil & outer ring is finer)

5) Oakleaves in wreath more elongated than Juncker

6) Wraps in lower bandeau are different (3 on OP spange and only 2 on Juncker)

7) Cartouche and wreath/swaz background pebbling is larger/coarser than Juncker

8) Date digits/font different

Again, other than outer detail (hand finishing) I agree with Patrick it does share a lot of similar points with the unusual Weitze second class I also liked at the time (in fact all points above but no outer feather veins)

No idea who made it but it looks credible to me

JC