EK1 opinions

[grinderwolf]

Can you guys please give me opinions on this EK1?? Photos are not mine and there are not more of them. Thanks in advance

[Douglas 5]

Well ... better pictures really would help[ .

Douglas

[vonStubben]

This cross, or one very similar to it was listed here about a week or so ago. I can tell, even with these poor pictures that the cross is bad given the presence of a weep hole located on the reverse at the 12 o'clock position, beneath the pin. Weep holes, to my knowledge, were never used in the manufacture of the iron Cross.

[Douglas 5]

That is a hole for the anti-rotation pin associated with disk back type - some times holes are found on EK1 back plates even when a pin was used .

Douglas

[vonStubben]

That is a hole for the anti-rotation pin associated with disk back type - some times holes are found on EK1 back plates even when a pin was used .

Douglas

In 53 years of collecting the Iron Cross, as well as having owned hundreds of EK I's, and living on 3 continents while pursuing the Iron Cross, plus never having read of such a thing before, I believe it's fake.

Would someone please educate me with proof of such holes existing for the purpose stated as well as any reference book where this is also noted? I ask this because I'm well know for the statement "never say never", however in this case I believe I'm correct in my assessment.

[Douglas 5]

Hi Charles :

Regardless if the cross is original or fake - the reference was only in regards to the purpose of a hole being in a back plate .

The attachment pictures show this purpose quite well .
A mistake was made placing the anti-rotation pin hole in the back of this disk plate .
So the worker had to redo the hole further to the edge so that the disk would go on without hitting the pin .

Douglas

[Volksgrenadier 44]

I wouldn't want it in my display cabinet

All the best,

Ross

[vonStubben]

Hi Charles :

Regardless if the cross is original or fake - the reference was only in regards to the purpose of a hole being in a back plate .

The attachment pictures show this purpose quite well .
A mistake was made placing the anti-rotation pin hole in the back of this disk plate .
So the worker had to redo the hole further to the edge so that the disk would go on without hitting the pin .

Douglas

Very interesting as I have never, ever, seen this before and I'd like to learn/see more examples of this if possible?

[Douglas 5]

Here is the one I own .
A pin back Juncker where at first glance every thing looks normal .

One day - weeks later to my surprize I found it .
The anchor was set over the pre stamped rotation pin hole ! I have seen one more like this .
If you are short a component - you make something else work/fit .... it is just the back side anyway .

Now most pin hole locations are near the edge .
Often L59 put theirs right on the edge ... probably when they attached the frame to the back - that would soldering in the pin at the same time .

Douglas

[vonStubben]

Here is the one I own .
A pin back Juncker where at first glance every thing looks normal .

One day - weeks later to my surprize I found it .
The anchor was set over the pre stamped rotation pin hole ! I have seen one more like this .
If you are short a component - you make something else work/fit .... it is just the back side anyway .

Now most pin hole locations are near the edge .
Often L59 put theirs right on the edge ... probably when they attached the frame to the back - that would soldering in the pin at the same time .

Douglas

Douglas,

Thank you so much for this information. I like it when this old dog can learn a new trick or two . I am really surprised that to my recollection this subject has never been discussed
or found in print before (at least for me) as I always try to keep my nose to the ground when it comes to information regarding the iron Cross. Of course much has been written that I've never been able to read.

My first negative thoughts regarding the cross which began this thread was the hole. My second was how sloppy the pin is held in place by the hinge along with the shape and thickness of the pin, combined with the fuzzy pictures. This being said it's possible that this pin has been replaced.

Perhaps better photos can be submitted of this cross? This would help greatly in figuring out it's maker.

[Douglas 5]

This just being a side subject to the up top posted cross ; will try to condence as much as I can .
Fakes disk back crosses have the same looking holes and anti rotation pins .
Disks come in different types and sizes (approx 5 sizes and smooth and clam shell ) .

Pic 1&2 - W&L with a 2 piece disk set and a rare in the center anti rotation pin .
Pic 3&4 - KvK different base metal with disk back .
Pic 5 : Quite a few makers that made disk EK1s - a sample - hope CMsgt does not mind me using his display .

A few others have disk collections - just the first one I found .
Now gas escape holes - if I remember correctly - can be found on some Gold Party Badges - and possibly on other awards .

Douglas

[Douglas 5]

Last picture 5 :
Gives a good view of disk sizes .

[vonStubben]

One of the reasons I never knew of these anchor holes for the anti rotation pin probably has to do with my preference for pin back crosses. I've never really liked screw back EK's and out of the hundreds of crosses I've owned I've only had maybe 12/15 SB examples acquired through direct veteran purchases and would never keep them any longer than it took to either sell or trade them off.

In the future, when I inspect a pin back cross I'll know what I'm looking at if I ever find one with such a hole.

Thanks again!

[grinderwolf]

thanks guys I will rather pass on this one then

[Douglas 5]

Yes -- there are a lot more and better EK1s to be had than this one .
The pin set is strange and the fuzzy front picture ... no for me .

Douglas