Spain Cross Otto Schickle

[AVRORA]

I marked the differences .
The feature of "L" seams unique enough it might be found on another maker ?

Douglas

Yes ! Petz and Lorenz has many differences.

[Brian S]

Whatever you choose to believe is ok with me.

So now impress us and tell us what it is, not what you see in differences.

[Brian S]

Maybe you want to recount.

[Brian S]

I do the best I can with the PICTURES I am given. If anyone can do better everyone will be very pleased.

If not P&L then I would conclude fake. It comes closer to nothing else but if the differences are there and it is not P&L then what else but a copy?

[AVRORA]

I do the best I can with the PICTURES I am given. If anyone can do better everyone will be very pleased.

If not P&L then I would conclude fake. It comes closer to nothing else but if the differences are there and it is not P&L then what else but a copy?

P&L - left. There are many diferents.

[AVRORA]

If not P&L then I would conclude fake. It comes closer to nothing else but if the differences are there and it is not P&L then what else but a copy?

Yes it's not P & L. Hence, this is a fake, are you sure ?

[Brian S]

Here's what I do with pictutres I see.

1. What is it closest to
2. I don't go to extremes in ID with pics
3. If anyone wants conclusive ID then it has to be in hand unless painfully obvious
4. I am NOT a fake expert.
5. There ARE finishing differences. Juncker is famous for their L/12's being more finely finished than their award pieces.
6. Otto Schickle parts started at some time to appear in other manufacturer's wares.

...and on and on...

In pics, I see what I see without spending hours trying to sharpen, straighten and align to pics of known pieces.

You want definitive absolute ID, give me this photo to compare.
This one? Fake? Don't know for sure but I wouldn't buy it based on these photos.

At a minimum I need very clear straight on photos of Sword Hilt and Eagle. Without that, I can call it as close as possible. This one probably not P&L but that's what it looked like from the clarity of the hilt.

[Douglas 5]

Was not sure if it was 5 or 6 so it is 6 ribs ... the other one still has 7 .
A different die - wish I could say who the maker is ... not qualified for that .
I put up the difference so that it might help others to reconnaise what it might be .

Douglas

[Brian S]

Sword hilt: hilt can be more finished. edges can be cut in to give more 3D effect.

Swas: Cut or not is not significant. Manufacturer especially on gold may go to further effort to finish.

Eagle: Has to be a straight on pic. Angled pic will distort.

Center swas: Hard to photograph but that ALWAYS has to match down to the pebble.

Pin and clasp: So what... Could easily change over a 3 year period.

Wear: My silver and that gold are entirely different in wear. A worn cross versus an unworn cross will appear very different in photos.

I am NOT always right in IDing photos that are not presented in a way to definitively show side by side. None of these photos were very good. So caveat, you paid me nothing for the ID and supply bad photos you get what you pay for and the effort you put into asking the question.

[Brian S]

Just curious... How did we go from the silver cross to what looks like a gold cross?

I was pretty sure about the photos in the silver, not the gold photos. It is close to a P&L. So for me either fake or close.

[AVRORA]

Here's what I do with pictutres I see.

1. What is it closest to
2. I don't go to extremes in ID with pics
3. If anyone wants conclusive ID then it has to be in hand unless painfully obvious
4. I am NOT a fake expert.
5. There ARE finishing differences. Juncker is famous for their L/12's being more finely finished than their award pieces.
6. Otto Schickle parts started at some time to appear in other manufacturer's wares.

...and on and on...

In pics, I see what I see without spending hours trying to sharpen, straighten and align to pics of known pieces.

You want definitive absolute ID, give me this photo to compare.
This one? Fake? Don't know for sure but I wouldn't buy it based on these photos.

At a minimum I need very clear straight on photos of Sword Hilt and Eagle. Without that, I can call it as close as possible. This one probably not P&L but that's what it looked like from the clarity of the hilt.

Brian, thank you for your opinion. To me this more closer to Otto Schickle. Perhaps this cross was made with using parts from Otto Schickle before RZM introduction . But I am not sure in this.
Another opinions are interesting...

[Brian S]

OS on left, the same to you?

[AVRORA]

OS on left, the same to you?

Yes I saw, this is one of the differences with OS. Another differences with the pin and the central swast. But maybe it's either an early OS type or details. Look at the eagles, hook and patterns of the rays.They are identical

[AVRORA]

Here's what I do with pictutres I see.

At a minimum I need very clear straight on photos of Sword Hilt and Eagle. Without that, I can call it as close as possible. This one probably not P&L but that's what it looked like from the clarity of the hilt.

[Brian S]

Look at the tail feathers of an OS eagle. Then compare this. This MUST match.