RK purchase good investment?

[ernestt]

I was thinking of investing some money in to a knights cross.
If I do I will be buying from Mr. Nieman.
I feel that the coa and life time fake guarantee is worth the extra cost.
My question is how hard is it to get my cash back out of something like this?
I don't want to invest 7 thousand and not be able to liquidate the thing.
Also I am not a medal person more into world war 2 firearms.
Second question; do these medals go up in value? Say I found one for 6 to 8 thousand, what can I expect it to be worth in a couple of years?

[ben bijker]

Hard to say what value it will have in a few years, but they will go up in price steadily.
If you're not in a rush when you want / need to sell it, you will not lose money on it.

But why bother and sell your KC when you need money, you have a gun collection don't you...

[historyguy]

Personally, I would advise against a purchase simply for investment-- militaria prices are too informal to gague investment potential. In this hobby a sale price is based more on your sales skills than a concrete 'blue book' price.

If something comes up and you need cash fast, you're not going to get as much for your item than if you can take your time and shop it around. The faster you need money, the more money you're going to lose...

And, keep in mind, you're not Detlev Niemann-- you'd be hard pressed to find someone willing to fork over $7K for an RK to someone they don't know-- even if that medal was originally sold by Detlev. You have to remember that people buy from reputable dealers not only becasue they have authentic & rare items, but because they have thousands of successful transactions under their belt.

You should stay with what holds your interest, and with what you are most knowledgeable-- in your case WWII firearms. If that is what you collect, you should have your own network of friends and fellow gun collectors you can turn to if you need to sell something fast.

If you want a truly liquid investment, buy stocks or mutual funds.

Just my two cents.

[Pieter Verbruggen]

I was thinking of investing some money in to a knights cross.
If I do I will be buying from Mr. Nieman.
I feel that the coa and life time fake guarantee is worth the extra cost.
My question is how hard is it to get my cash back out of something like this?
I don't want to invest 7 thousand and not be able to liquidate the thing.
Also I am not a medal person more into world war 2 firearms.
Second question; do these medals go up in value? Say I found one for 6 to 8 thousand, what can I expect it to be worth in a couple of years?

Two good points.....

investing in a Knights Cross is always a good thing...and buing it from Detlev is the second good thing.( btw the COA costs you nothing)

If you are worry for the $7000, ask Detlev to sell you a Juncker lazy 2 with outer carton and I always buy it from you for $8000.....

Pieter.

[kennethc]

If you take it as investment...then...
Keeping cash and gain interest in bank is safer investment. I have a friend
needed urgent money and slashed prices on his iron crosses... It is hard to
sell High prices RK (by owner..i.e. placing ads here and there) unless you consign it to reputatable dealers..but then..you lost another 10-15% commission or dealer buy it at 25-30% below market price.

[eindecker2]

Here is my thought on investing in an RK. Six years ago when I first started I remember RKs (in general) going for the grand sum of $4500-6000, depending on the make, condition, box, etc...About three years ago, I saw RKs going for 12K plus and selling. Now those same RKs are back down to 7-9k in the 'sellable and buyable' range. One must remember that this type of collecting as 'investment' is an 'entertainment' investment. (Art, antiques, collectibles, autographs, movies, etc... all fall under this category) Thankfuly it was one of the few categories that did not suffer during the depresion of the 20's and 30's or in subsequent financial times. I.E. the value of items did not depreciate as much as other investment items (real estate, stocks, bonds,etc...) However the only downside is that 'collectibles' suffer from three factors. One - buyers are rich people with disposable income that generaly comes from other investments (stocks, bonds, etc...) Two - when these people cant buy, not much sells - hence the price goes down a bit. Three - the buyers are folks like us - they have a shallow pool of buyers to buy from. The internet has helped to widen that pool, but considering the people who invest in the stock market as opposed to those collecting RKs...The silver lining is that when more disposable income does become available people will buy and the value will have held. Try and compare that with the dotcom stocks of the 90's. Never will they reach the value that they held origionaly. My grandparents curled up at night with their stomachs hurting so much because there was no food during the depresion. Those times showed them what worked and what didnt. The diversified in stocks, bonds, and collectibles. (they and we also get the 'entertainment' value out of collecting) After a lifetime of collecting the collection of antiques, autographs, and other odd valuables - they are well off. So - if you are young, have the cash and are willing to wait a few decades to make a great payoff that keeps ahead of inflation, buy an exeptional RK (damaged, incomplete, or less desirelable, will just make it that much harder to sell). Enjoy it, take care of it, show it to us of the fourm, and wait till the kids leave the house before selling it.

Just my two cents

[Harvey A]

The higher the price of a collectible, the harder it is to sell discreetly. In the USA, long-term captial gains tax for collectibles is 28% compared to 15% for other captial assest such as stocks and certain bonds. The gains on some bonds are tax-free. So if your interest is investment only, think twice. But if you really want an RK badly enough, you'll get one simply for the pride of ownership, investment potential not-withstanding.

Harvey

[JOHN VD HEIJDEN]

If you are worry for the $7000, ask Detlev to sell you a Juncker lazy 2 with outer carton and I always buy it from you for $8000.....

Pieter.

Pieter Just want to add this ,he isn,t a belgium person

[chris clark]

I might start a fight here but the price of these and what you can get for the same im sorry has put me off the purchase of such an item. i can get a whole cased luft collection for one of these at currant prices, i know what id like to own.the price is killing these pieces as loads of others have the same view now. sorry had to be said

[Chet Sowersby]

Hi Ernest.
If you are going to purchase TR items for investment purposes then you are collecting for all the wrong reasons. JMO.....

Chet

[Laurence Strong]

I would have to agree with Chet for thhe most part, Although I collect for the enjoyment of the artifacts I can aquire, there is always in the back of my head, the fact that the money is not wasted, and that when my kids inherit it, they should realize a substantial amount of money. JMO

[Chris Liontas]

Hi Ernest.
If you are going to purchase TR items for investment purposes then you are collecting for all the wrong reasons. JMO.....

Chet

I agree. While the alure of buying something now, and selling it for a nice profit later on is what we all dream of, very few people can actually make a lot of $$ back doing this. I would say, research the KC, find a stlye that you like, and buy one to enjoy.

If you want a good investment opportunity, I would go with the stock market. A lot less hassel and irritation

[dasboot]

Personally, I dont think that your kids will inherit anything of value in regards to TR items. With the progress these fakers are making, those RK's will be worthless umless you carry an electric microscope around to prove otherwise. Try to sell an "authetic" RK in a market saturated with fakes that no one can distinguish between the two and you'll see your investment plummet.

My opinion.

[Dave Kane]

While I agree that these things shouldn't specifically be utilized as INVESTMENT just by their very nature and the mania of the collector...they are!!


Respectfully, I haven't seen a Knight's Cross offered for sale that didn't SELL. Once the rule of buying quality and condition is adhered to this stuff will be forever 'liquid' and a line of people waiting to buy!

Example....if I offered this tomorrow for $10,000.00 I suspect it wouldn't last an hour.

It's just a fact of the collector's 'world'.....and who ever thought you could get $250. for a single decal m42???

[tom hansen]

Personally, I dont think that your kids will inherit anything of value in regards to TR items. With the progress these fakers are making, those RK's will be worthless umless you carry an electric microscope around to prove otherwise. Try to sell an "authetic" RK in a market saturated with fakes that no one can distinguish between the two and you'll see your investment plummet.

My opinion.

dasboot-

30 seconds with a 40X loop will show a real vs a fake cross. There are MANY very small flaws that cannot be effectively reproduced that will keep the fakers at bay. If you have ever gone over one of these with a loop, or even just a 10X magnifying glass, I think the fakers will never be able to get it right.


So Dave- When are you putting that cross up for sale ?


As far as an investment, I would never consider collecting an investment, but more entertainment. Collector cars and coins are generally poor investmetns, but fun for the collectors. I guess art is a whole different ball game. With militaria I would not bet the ranch, but maybe just a few of "outbuildings", on the prices continuing to rise.