What's this War Merit Cross with Swords made of please?

[terry.h]

Can anyone please tell me what this War Merit Cross First Class with Swords is made of please?
I did put this on the Forum for scrutiny a few days ago but forgot to ask what it could be made of as I want to sell it.
I'm not a medals man and it is a bit confusing when I read that some are tombac some copper/zinc etc. some apparently are even bronze. Some have a silver or bronze wash and some don't, - were they supposed to look silver or not?
It appears to make a difference to the price depending on what it is made of and I don't want to inadvertently mislead anyone.
A bit of additional info. which may help:
There is a stamping into the centre of the pin which reads L15 (which I have been reliably informed is Friedrich Orth of Vienna....thank you Dietrich Maerz ). It measures 48.6 x 48.55 mm and weighs 20.2 gms.
Thanks in advance,
Terry

[terry.h]

b)

[Jean-Claude]

Hi Terry,

I havent taken pictures yet but I just bought the same identical cross as yours from a dealer in Europe and he describes it as a "buntmetal" piece...The only weird thing is that he attributes my piece (also marked L/15) to Otto Schickle of Pforzheim (which coïncides with my version of the LDO list), not Friedrich Orth of Vienna

Regards

JC

[Dietrich Maerz]

This piese is not marked L/15 for Schickle but rather L15 which is Friedrich Orth.

Dietrich

[Jean-Claude]

Thanks Dietrich, the MM is very small so I'll check mine with a loop to see but it does have the oval plates under the hinge & catch like Terry's so you are probably right.

JC

[terry.h]

Merit Cross Medal

Hi JC,
Thanks for the input, and Dietrich too.
'Buntmetall' translated into English simply means non ferrous metal. Non ferrous covers a very wide range. Basically it means does not contain iron and consequently doesn't easily rust or corrode and isn't magnetic. A typical non ferrous metal is aluminium for example or copper but that doesn't really say what this particular Merit Cross is probably made of, which I know is hard to determine from just a photo. Apparently there are even some very rare bronze WM crosses!
Terry.

[Jean-Claude]

Hi Terry

I think you'll find the attached table handy. In this particular case (your cross) I would say "buntmetal" would mean silvered tombac

JC

[Tony T-S]

Thanks JC, very helpful table

[Douglas 5]

Looks like Buntmetal - silver plated .

Douglas

[Dietrich Maerz]

Douglas,

I know it is kind of wiseguy remark, but in the spirit of using correct terms for materials (and items) the use of Buntmetall is wrong. I know that it is heavily used in the German literature and fora, but that does not make it right.
Buntmetall (colored metal) is a German collective term for a whole series of metals and includes cadmium (Cd), cobalt (Co), copper (Cu), nickel (Ni), lead (Pb), tin (Sn) and zinc (Zn), basiclly all non-iron metals excluding precious metals.

So, to say something is made of Buntmetall is saying it could be one of the above metals, which clearly is not the intention. In all cases it is used to describe Tombak, which is not a basic metal element but rather an alloy (as shown in the table above).

And, by the way, the table is also not correct. None of the three alloys mentioned (Messing, Tombak, and Neusilber) is a Buntmetall. A Buntmetall is always a pure element of the periodic table.

Again, I apologize for the "rant", but I am really a stickler for correct naming of things. I also don't like Kreigsmarine, Shinkle, Spangs, and Liebstandarte!

The War Merit Cross in question is most likely made of Tombak (I know that that is what you menat) and silvered.

[Douglas 5]

Dietrich :
I have to respectfully disagree with -
The online definition now does include the alloys of - pure elements of Buntmetall .
Not sure when they changed the definition to include Messing, Bronze and Rotguß ?

Douglas

[Dietrich Maerz]

Douglas,

my definition of Buntmetall comes from what my books on the university told me. That was and still is the official definition. That some people or companies or Wikipedia mention that (occasionally and out of habit) other colorful alloys are also included into the group might very well be. But that is not the correct definition of Buntmetall.

In general it is wrong to answer the question "What material is that?" with "Buntmetall", since that is a group of metal elements and not a specific one. One would not answer the question "What type of car is that?" with "One with four doors." Not very helpful nor specific.

But again, I apologize for being a stickler to accuracy in describing things in our hobby. I surely know that everybody knows when Buntmetal is mentioned that Tombak is meant. (So why not say Tombk in the first place?)

[Douglas 5]

Well yes ... that is fine and I agree to try to use the correct wording/description when one can .
A lot collectors here will Google the word " Buntmetall " and will still use it in place of Tombak .
- JC used the word and I answered with the same word he used ... incorrectly not in parenthesis ....# me bad .

Douglas

[terry.h]

War Merit Cross - Tombac, Buntmetall etc

I would just like to thank everyone who has contributed to this regarding the metal of my War Merit Cross. It has certainly been helpful in a rather 'all encompassing' sort of way. To the non medals man such as myself it is confusing when I hear the word tombac or Buntmetall when describing a medal rather than a specific metal or metals because tombac and Buntmetall are in reality both unspecific and very wide ranging. However, it does appear to me that the word tombac seems to cover all the variations of metals used in certain medals and awards rather than a definite metal so it makes sense to use 'tombac' as the general term. Does that make sense?
Thanks again to you all,
Terry.

[Dietrich Maerz]

No, Terry, it does not!😀
Tombak is a very well defined material, i.e a high-copper content brass, i.e. at least 80% copper and the balance zinc.It is not a term for a group of alloys!
That is exactly the problem with using Buntmetall (which is a group of elements) and thinking or meaning Tombak with it (which is a brass alloy)!
Buntmetall and Tombak is not the same!