Fourplace medalbar EK1939,KVK,12Years and Sudetenland

[Thomas Bendixen]

Hi Everyone

I have had this IMO authentic medalbar on the e-stand and its getting a bit of 'flak' so I would like to hear from the more knowleged if anything is wrong or fishy about this bar?

Cheers Thomas

[Thomas Bendixen]

Rev.

[Thomas Bendixen]

No onehas an opinion - or have I posted this in the wrong forum?

Cheers Thomas

[Seigfried]

[

No onehas an opinion - or have I posted this in the wrong forum?

Cheers Thomas

Hi Thomas,
It does look a bit 'cobbled' together. What I find odd is that the red in the KVK / Sudetenland has faded to orange and the EK2 is still nice and red.

Regards,

John

[Stravers]

Maybe they added the EK2 after the war to it?

[Thomas Bendixen]

Hi John and Daan

Finally some input here The Sudeten and KVK ribbons has not faded, the colours you see is the original colours of these ribbons (The Sudeten is more peachy than red, and the KVK is orange coloured). The early EK ribbons and KVK ribbons vere more orange than red but I don't know for how long before they changed it to red? So my assumption would be that the original threeplace is an early one and at the time the recipient won the EK and added it to the medalbar the orange ribbons had been replaced by the redcoloured ribbon. Hope this dosen't sounds far fetched.

Cheers Thomas

[Chris Wainwrigh]

If there is a 12 year service medal on the bar it should have a 4 year also IMO.

[Thomas Bendixen]

Hi Chris

Thanks for your opinion, I had the same thought when I bought it but have allways believed never to be to categorical in these matters. Anyway, I looked it up in. I looked it up in Angolias "For Führer and Fatherland" (I know that this book dosen't represents THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH) but it says on p.48 that the dienstauszeichung 3th. and 4th. class "could be worn together"! Soo they don't neccesarily have to!

And if you think about it.... a fraudster that were thinking - ahhh I know just the way to make a fast buck here - takes four original TR medals, sew them in the correct fashion and adds a fourth EK in the "wrong" fashion, then screw up the regulations and add a 12 year instead of the much cheaper 4 year medal and after a couple of days brings it to a german parkinglot near Haiger and sells it of way under marketprice hmm - I don't think so.

Thanks again for the input - lets hear some more

Cheers Thomas

[Brian S]

Thomas, I woulnd't call this bar a fake. It's just not very attractive. It's a shame the vet or his wife to be didn't sew the EKII a little more like the style of the bar. I'm guessing the vet came back from the front, got married, found a second hand Waffenrock and got his bar updated with his EKII. In a wedding photo you'd never notice the poor job done on the EKII ribbon.

[Schurgers]

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I also think that the components of the bar are correct. I don't have an opinion about the added ek 2. Could easily be wartime made. Given the fact that the owner did not applied the EK in a handsome way it is likely that he upgraded his DA from 4 to 12 years. If the job was done by a professional I would expect both the medals. I believe that regulations where strict but I also know that mistakes where made.<o></o>

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Good luck Willem

[Thomas Bendixen]

Hi everyone

Thanks very much for taking the time to comment. I have lowered the price accordingly!

Cheers Thomas

[Humberto Corado]

hello Thomas,


in my opinion EKII was added in war time , the fact that this was not done by professional way it does not mean that has been modified after of the war . Looks as other examples of medal bars that I have seen.

[Rick Research]

25, 18, and 12 were NEVER worn alone unless a lower grade Austrian Republic long service was worn in place of the SECOND Wehrmacht long service in the PAIRS 25 & 12, 18 & 4, 12 & 4. This has come up over and over in past threads, to the point I find it completely demoralizing to have the non- "issue" raised over and over.

It seems that the more years pass from living memory, the greater removed English language sources (generally repeating each other, and not primary sources) become from the original German.

From von Hessenthal and Schreiber, "Die Tragbaren Ehrenzeichen des Deutschen Reiches," edition of 1940, page 125:

"...Auf dem Bande wird außerdem das Hoheitzeichen der Wehrmacht getragen in der Metallfarbe der betreffenden Dienstauszeichnung. Die Luftwaffe trägt auf dem Bande das für diese bestimmte Hoheitsabzeichen, einen fliegenden Adler mit dem Hakenkreuz in einem Fang. Die I. und die III., die II. und die IV. sowie die III. und die IV. Klasse werden zusammen angelegt.

I have no problem accepting some guy improvizing his own updated medal bar at the time-- we see "add ons" all the time from cheapskates in the 1930s who didn't even have wartime as any excuse. It then becomes any buyer's choice whether to accept something that COULD have been done in 1935, or 1943, or... 2004. I personally prefer correct professionally made regulation pieces and not something that simply can NOT be verified as authentic to the period by construction or materials.

Somebody NOT the original wearer took off a correct single 4 (or any of the other Third Reich single long services which originally had no ribbon device at all, possibly) and "upgraded" to a Hollywood version with the Lone 12.

Rules, regulations, and most of all, pictures of real groups over time can be found at

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/rela...bons/index.htm

Those are ribbon bars, not medal bars, but the way ribbons were worn together remain the same.


For an INCORRECT but original PERIOD wear-snafu with the mixed Austrian First Republic Bundesheer/Third Reich Wehrmacht long services, see

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.net/foru...ad.php?t=92931

In that bar there should only be ONE long service, but the wearer has worn TWO-- getting the regulations wrong by ADDING one, not SUBTRACTING one from a pair.