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Carl Maurer & Sohn (PKZ74) versus Jullius Maurer (PKZ75)

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    #1

    Carl Maurer & Sohn (PKZ74) versus Jullius Maurer (PKZ75)

    Hi guys,

    I very recently obtained a larger stock of medals in their original bags. All made by Julius Maurer from Oberstein. Although the war merit medals and the east front medals were unmarked, all the KVK's without swords were marked "75".

    I think we can be 100% positive that the maker of these medals is Julius Maurer (not Carl Maurer with PKZ code "74" but both from Oberstein), so I guess we can fill in an unknown PKZ code in our lists

    Does anyone knows if there was a connection between both? With a PKZ code next to each other and based within the same city I would expect them to be relatives?

    Hope you like them,
    Giel
    Attached Files
    Kind regards,
    Giel

    Check out our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/Giels-Milit...5292741243193/
    Tags: None
    #2
    2
    Attached Files
    Kind regards,
    Giel

    Check out our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/Giels-Milit...5292741243193/

    Comment

      #3
      Julius Maurers PKZ code was 138. It was not 75.

      Comment

        #4
        Extremely interesting, completely missed that

        How can one explain these? All marked "75" and never been out of the packages before!
        Attached Files
        Kind regards,
        Giel

        Check out our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/Giels-Milit...5292741243193/

        Comment

          #5
          You got a nice set there. It is known from other makers to use other makers bags or even some makers only did bags and provided them to manufacturers. Example, Carl Forster & Graf made bags for the EK2 and provided them to numerous makers, but didn't make EK themselves.

          I have never taken really seriously unknown crosses ID:ied to maker only by the packets they are in, here is a good example why.

          Nevertheless, you got a nice hoard there

          Comment

            #6
            Yes but... what is the conscience that:

            1) 75 follows 74 on the PKZ list a Carl Maurer from Oberstein? Same last name, same place like Julius Maurer.
            2) That 75 is still an unknown manufacturer!

            Looking forwards to the PKZ experts.
            Kind regards,
            Giel

            Check out our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/Giels-Milit...5292741243193/

            Comment

              #7
              3) More from the same Maurer hoard... these medals are all unmarked.
              Attached Files
              Kind regards,
              Giel

              Check out our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/Giels-Milit...5292741243193/

              Comment

                #8
                ...
                Attached Files
                Kind regards,
                Giel

                Check out our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/Giels-Milit...5292741243193/

                Comment

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Giel VW View Post
                  Yes but... what is the conscience that:

                  1) 75 follows 74 on the PKZ list a Carl Maurer from Oberstein? Same last name, same place like Julius Maurer.
                  2) That 75 is still an unknown manufacturer!

                  Looking forwards to the PKZ experts.
                  I'm not exactly following up on what you're trying to tell me with the PKZ numbers as Julius Maurer's number was 138.

                  There were several other manufacturers from Oberstein, for example Klein & Quenzer who's PKZ number was 65.
                  There exists iron crosses from both 138 (Julius Maurer) and 75, and anyone who has studied Iron Crosses will be able to tell that the crosses from either manufacturer are totally different and the almost only thing in common is that both are Iron Crosses. An easy conclusion can be drawn of that Julius Maurer didn't make the 75 marked items but his own 138 marked items, the possibility that he changed his number can be totally ruled out due to the design differences.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Dansson View Post
                    I'm not exactly following up on what you're trying to tell me with the PKZ numbers as Julius Maurer's number was 138.

                    There were several other manufacturers from Oberstein, for example Klein & Quenzer who's PKZ number was 65.
                    There exists iron crosses from both 138 (Julius Maurer) and 75, and anyone who has studied Iron Crosses will be able to tell that the crosses from either manufacturer are totally different and the almost only thing in common is that both are Iron Crosses. An easy conclusion can be drawn of that Julius Maurer didn't make the 75 marked items but his own 138 marked items, the possibility that he changed his number can be totally ruled out due to the design differences.
                    Hi Dansson,

                    I'm completely following you and I 100% agree with you, let that don't be an issue. Just want to think out of the box, because it's easy not to look a little beyond.

                    The only thing that I'm looking for is an explanation for the maker "75" which is "unknown" and the connection to Maurer.
                    Kind regards,
                    Giel

                    Check out our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/Giels-Milit...5292741243193/

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Giel VW View Post
                      The only thing that I'm looking for is an explanation for the maker "75" which is "unknown" and the connection to Maurer.
                      I'm as well interested to know who "75" was. The relation must have been professional, although not all companies who shared parts or co-operated were located in the same city and area, but most did, so it can be speculated 75 is perhaps an Oberstein located company.
                      Due to the fact that Oberstein is one of the "centers" where manufacturers of orders and awards were concentarted in during the Second World War (Other centers of concentration being, Berlin, Pforzheim, Gablonz and Lüdenscheid). It's very likely "75" just went next door to ask for packets as he didn't have any.

                      Your hoard may give a hint of a possible location of where 75 was.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Dansson View Post
                        It's very likely "75" just went next door to ask for packets as he didn't have any.
                        This is as plausible as saying that Maurer made them and put "75" in that ring because someone asked them... rather speculative.
                        Kind regards,
                        Giel

                        Check out our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/Giels-Milit...5292741243193/

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Giel VW View Post
                          This is as plausible as saying that Maurer made them and put "75" in that ring because someone asked them... rather speculative.
                          Well most co-operation we have seen has happened in the same cities Just as example the Vienna makers whom's crosses are just a big mix of oneothers parts. Besides we have seen some makers only making packets for other makers and a maker who distributed their packets to others.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Dansson View Post
                            Well most co-operation we have seen has happened in the same cities Just as example the Vienna makers whom's crosses are just a big mix of oneothers parts. Besides we have seen some makers only making packets for other makers and a maker who distributed their packets to others.
                            Yes you already said that

                            Anyone else who might have some specific information regarding to the mm 75 and Maurer connection?
                            Kind regards,
                            Giel

                            Check out our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/Giels-Milit...5292741243193/

                            Comment

                              #15



                              Where did this hoard come from?

                              It's been a good discussion Giel. I really enjoy these kind of discussions where thoughts and ideas are shared

                              Someone once mentioned to me that 75 could be Franke & Co (or something that way), I asked on what this thought was based on but never really got an answer to it. Perhaps someone can say where this thought came from or why it perhaps might be candidate for 75?

                              Thought this question would be good to throw in here as it can take us closer to the answer or lead us to another clue...

                              I do have a list of pre-LDO Iron Cross manufacturers with many names I am not familiar as known Iron Cross manufacturers (from packets, markings or otherwise known). The manufacturer 75 is possibly one name among them... but there are 17 of these who didn't make it to either the LDO or PKZ and many later makers missing (Franke is at least not one of them...).

                              More questions, I know 75 made EK2 and KVK, does anyone know any other awards they made?


                              Some extra information, of all 140 PKZ makers,
                              17, 38, 54, 75, 94, 96, 97, 115, 119, 121, 133 and 136 are still unknown.

                              Best regards,
                              Daniel

                              Comment

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