Grand Cross by Zimmerman

[Dietrich Maerz]

Dietrich:
Don't mind me asking but, what is it about this cross that you like?
Ron

Since when has originality something to do with "like"? For me originality in the field of Third Reich collecting is something that was made during that period. Whether I like it or not does not enter into it.
Actually, it is a very dangerous proposition to collect only what one likes and what is (subjectively) pleasing to the eye. One would shy away from buying a very rare Schickle Knights Cross and rather obtain a very well done fake with nice deep beading.

This Zimmermann Grand Cross is a piece of history, recovered from the rubbles of the company which was destroyed in that devastating bombing in late February 1945.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Quoting the excellent Nazi Celebrity Relics: Real or Fake article by the late Bill Stump
"Judging by period photographic and documentary evidence, the Großkreuz awarded by Hitler to Göring on 15.7.1940 seems to have been the type attributed to Godet, which was very likely to have been made by C F Zimmermann."
Is this Zimmermann Grand Cross identical to Goring's Grand Cross now lost to the ashes.....?

That "judgment" based on a photograph is not done by the excellent late Bill Stump, but rather by somebody who took his name in order to obscure his real identity. Bill Stump (the real one who is dead) would never said such a thing because he studied the Grand Cross in hand and he also never had a blog, unfortunately.

Göring's Grand Cross was made by C.E. Juncker and so were the other remaining examples in the red case found in Schloss Klessheim.

[Leroy]

Based on the excellent 'before and after' photos posted by 'collector 5168', the loop on the cross is the original, and is marked '800' and '20'. I was just curious as to thoughts on the use of the PKZ number. Were any '2' marked Juncker GC's found at Klessheim? (Sorry, but I can't remember at the moment.)

[Dietrich Maerz]

No, they were marked "L/12".
The use of the "20" on the Grand Cross for sure presents a puzzle, but that is just the way it is. The cross itself is not marked and the "800" on the loop is in incuse.

[Gary B]

Quoting the excellent Nazi Celebrity Relics: Real or Fake article by the late Bill Stump

"Judging by period photographic and documentary evidence, the Großkreuz awarded by Hitler to Göring on 15.7.1940 seems to have been the type attributed to Godet, which was very likely to have been made by C F Zimmermann."

Is this Zimmermann Grand Cross identical to Goring's Grand Cross now lost to the ashes.....?

I would be careful believing anything on the quoted site. It was not written by Bill Stump (many threads on the WAF are related to these rants/postings on that site).

Gary B

[Leroy]

No, they were marked "L/12".
The use of the "20" on the Grand Cross for sure presents a puzzle, but that is just the way it is. The cross itself is not marked and the "800" on the loop is in incuse.

Thanks! That was my 'memory', too, but better to have it confirmed. On a sidenote, I have a 1914 GC by S&L, marked '800' and '4' (incused). Obviously not meant for award, but real (in my opinion and that of Imperial collectors who know about GC's), and certainly a puzzle.