Unknow KC - Detlev page 490, KC h

[Dietrich Maerz]

I'm sure that Generaloberst Dollmann got a nice funeral, maybe even a state one. But why - to go with Don't theory -would the state supply a new RK and not use the actual one he already had? I guess they would not use doubles for the other medals either. But hey, everything is possible! Fact is, he had two crosses, one unknown maker and one flawed June 44 S&L.

Dietrich

[Dave Kane]

Poor bastard died June 28th....they put him on ice until the official award could be signed for and then FedEx'd and then took his original Cross and put it below the pillow to showcase the sparkling new one with Oaks....


I really would like to see pics of this grand funeral....

Lads, we get so caught up in the 'romantic' aspect of this hobby and lose sight of the logical view!!

Look at the croses....same???

[Dave Kane]

No wonder he had a heart attack.....stressing about the eventual discussions regarding his awards.....


His buddies...to his chagrin....got nice Juncker crosses, Godet or the rare 3/4 ring......he got stuck with an 'unknown'!!!

Then he dies and they still mess with him by giving him an S&L with FLAWS....but probably feel it's OK as they attached a nice 21 Oaks to it....

[Marc Garlasco]

Dave,

Maybe he saw my sister and died a happy man?

Seriously, I see your point - WHY two RKs? I do not have an answer for that. I still think he may have had a nice funeral...

Marc

[tom hansen]

No wonder he had a heart attack.....stressing about the eventual discussions regarding his awards.....


His buddies...to his chagrin....got nice Juncker crosses, Godet or the rare 3/4 ring......he got stuck with an 'unknown'!!!

Then he dies and they still mess with him by giving him an S&L with FLAWS....but probably feel it's OK as they attached a nice 21 Oaks to it....

If he is exhumed and he has rolled over in his grave, we will know that he recieved a rounder!

[Dave Kane]

Tom, I appreciate humor and use sarcasm to a fault...but this one is about the cross at hand and the one suggested as the awarded cross upon death....I think we will get to the rounder soon enough!


I think that just because Detlev's (name) is associated with this thread it's a bit silent but as shown in the past and graciously accepted, he welcomes discussion and discovery...


Heck let's chat about this one ( inset ) and how it compares to the cross worn!

[Flemming]

Could it be, that at one time he couldn't find his first RK, and then got a replacement for that. But later found the first piece
And that would explain the two pieces

That sure has happend for me! (With my Visa-Card )


Best regards

Flemming

[Brian S]

There are manufacturers known to have made RKs that have not been identified precisely.

Manufacturers' crosses were gathered up and distributed from stock after private sales banned.

That creates the large possibility of some manufacturers may never have made crosses again.

Keep an open mind and find proof.

I don't think I've ever read a definitive reading of how relatives received crosses. The cases were not available for Paepcke's items from the family. Highly likely a funeral, however majestic, or not, a pillow was carried with items attached. Boxes not required for awards on pillow.

[tom hansen]

Brian- Is the Paepke cross with oaks you have the posthumous award? And so it is presumed that an additional cross was awarded to him with the oaks? Because for him, there would be 3 crosses- the one that went down with him over Malta, the second cross that another member has, and the third post humous cross. So a cross count greater than two would not be unheard of.


Just throwing this out- Since this is so similar to a juncker cross that it took Dietrich's sharp eye to spot the difference between it and juncker, is it possible that there are more of these out there that people have assumed are junckers and have not examined them in greater detail?

[Dave Kane]

How disappointing!!! I hoped to log in this morning and view a few pics of Gen. Dollmann...


Anyone have the HH catalog that featured these crosses?

Come on boys a great topic for discussion!

[Allan P.]

The same Dollmann?



http://www.britannica.com/normandy/a...Friedrich.html

[Dave Kane]

Allan, yes that appears to be him!!!

Does anyone have a Hoffmann type photo of this fellow?

[Dietrich Maerz]

Some further informations: regarding his son in law, who also was in Normandy at the time of Dollmann's dead (a suicide!) the Generaloberst was buried end of June in the German cementery Champigny St. Andre (France) where he still rests today in peace. The oaks were awarded several days later on 2nd July 44. So there was no state funeral with oaks on a pillow.

Dietrich

[Dave Kane]

I'm sure that Generaloberst Dollmann got a nice funeral, maybe even a state one. But why - to go with Don't theory -would the state supply a new RK and not use the actual one he already had? I guess they would not use doubles for the other medals either. But hey, everything is possible! Fact is, he had two crosses, one unknown maker and one flawed June 44 S&L.

Dietrich

Wonderful research Dietrich! This sort of dampens the 'romantic' aspect of the multiple Crosses and the presentation of a lovely new Cross with the Oaks attached....to be presented to the family and a chance at a Political statement for PR reasons!!!

I doubt that his death was played up big at all considering the 7/44 goings on....

So now we are stuck at a cross-roads of whom do we believe.....or what really is logical!

H. Historica......Family......

Or is it yet another grouping that has been imbellished upon over the years....

I bite my tongue but can't help but say it.....another Bader trunk?

[tom hansen]

I guess this brings up a greater question regarding provenance in general. Do we


1. Use provenance as an acceptable standard to establish the veracity of an award?


2. View provenance simply as a colorful historical addition to an award that must stand up to scrutiny in isolation, independent of the provenance?


What would we say about this if it was another unknown RK maker?