Opinions invited on 2 EKII's

[sanya13]

+1

i believe and i am convinced that this cross is made by assmann

regards
jarek

[peterwyndavies]

Thanks sanya13, Danfoss and boch 62,
Your link did not appear on the message Sanya, could you try again or email it to me. I have tried to search the WAF for it, but it will not include the 8 because it is too small a word. Also although I am searching in the Crosses of the Wehrmacht sub forum it searches all the forums for "variant," so too many results to wade through.
Thanks,
Peter

[peterwyndavies]

Hi all,
I was eventually able to trace this thread by Streptile
http://184.172.36.50/forums/showthre...hlight=Assmann
From this one by Sanya
http://184.172.36.50/forums/showthre...hlight=Variant
These are both fascinating threads though I am not quite sure what Trevor means in his comparison of flanges.
I will re read them and then compare them to my EKII without ribbon.
Thanks,
Peter

[peterwyndavies]

Hmm, getting late, but my cross does not seem to have the raised 3 that Streptile points out.
I will look again tomorrow.
Peter

[peterwyndavies]

I have re-read the threads referred to above, including other threads mentioned in them, and remain a little confused. This is probably because of my dozyness at this time of night!
Streptile refers to the "Assmann Schinkel" in his thread, which I assume is the "variant 8" referred to in this thread, or am I wrong?
Thanks,
Peter

[streptile]

Hi Peter,

The Assmann Schinkel is a different cross. In the same way that other makers (Deumer, Meybauer, etc) made Schinkels early in the war, and then changed to the larger, LDO design later in the war, so (the theory goes) did Assmann.

So there is the supposed Assmann Schinkel, which you can forget about for now, and then your cross, which used to be called the "8?" because one was found with a presumably fake 8 mark on the ring. But no one knew the maker so I called it the "8?" and the name stuck.

Then, over the years, multiple "8?" crosses turned up in Assmann packets -- so many, in fact, that we all started to assume the "8?" was made by Assmann after they stopped making the Schinkel. That's what your second cross is.

I hope that's clear. If not, please ask questions.

[peterwyndavies]

Hi Trevor,
Nice to hear from you again. Your explanation makes things very clear now, and I understand. Though I come across EK's now and again, they are not items that I know much about, so not being in the mainstream of EK discussion I am not conversant with the current trends in that area. I have found this thread and links to be very interesting thanks to your and others input, and it has increased my limited knowledge a lot.
I have seen reference to Schinkel crosses in various threads, but didn't appreciate that this was a generic design of cross that was replaced by another one, so this has clarified that for me.
As part of my "education program" I will re-read again your thread on the Assmann Schinkel to see if I can fathom out what you mean when you describe the asymmetric flange design.
Thanks again for your excellent explanation.
Peter

[streptile]

I have seen reference to Schinkel crosses in various threads, but didn't appreciate that this was a generic design of cross that was replaced by another one, so this has clarified that for me.

"Schinkels" are EKs made in the rush of the first months of the war using leftover frames from WWI-era stocks, with new 1939 cores. The theory is that makers lacked the time to manufacture new frame dies, or the money, and just wanted to rush to fill orders, so they used up the old stocks of frames. So in size and shape Schinkels (usually; there are exceptions) resemble the smaller, more delicate 1914 or 1870 EKs. But WWII-era regulations mandated a wider (44mm) and more robust design, and eventually every maker had to adopt this so-called "LDO style" of cross, including even the makers of Schinkels. Therefore, most (or all) makers of Schinkels also later made LDO EKs.

[peterwyndavies]

Thanks for explaining the characteristics of the Schinkel crosses Trevor.
Peter