eStand EK1 - L15

[John F.]

Hello, I have an EK1 listed on the eStand and was sent a PM suggesting that the cross may not be real. questioning the authenticity of this piece.

Can I please get some opinions on authenticity of this piece.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=883395

Thanks,
John

[Gary B]

Here is a fake L15 I once owned.

Gary B

[Gary B]

Mm

[Douglas 5]

A side by side comparison - who ever wants to take a stab at it .

Douglas

[Douglas 5]

And both marks :

[Gary B]

Douglas,

Thanks for doing that.

Gary B

[Dietrich Maerz]

Looks like a F. Orth with the "L 15" pin as shown on page 139 of "The Iron Cross 1. Class". In our opinion this is a genuine pre May 45 example.

[John F.]

Douglas,

Thank you for the reply and for the comparison.

[John F.]

Looks like a F. Orth with the "L 15" pin as shown on page 139 of "The Iron Cross 1. Class". In our opinion this is a genuine pre May 45 example.

Dietrich,

Thank you. For my own edification are you saying that the cross is good (F. Orth made) but that it has an L15 pin?

[Douglas 5]

Glad to help where I can .

Douglas

[Dietrich Maerz]

IMO the L15 pin is an original product of F. Orth. They somehow mixed the their 15 with the LDO designation "L" and produced this faulty stamp. They sued it for some time before they realized the mistake. Later on the pins were used to produce post-war products, such as the Souval-hybrids and the Austrian fake.

One can see the same L15 pin on perfectly original KVK 1. Class from Orth. It is not the pin that is a fake, it is the later use of the pin that makes the fake.

Dietrich

[Eklipse]

Dietrich, you've done a dangerous statement. We know after war Mr. Johannes Floch adquired Orth leftover parts (that is, parts made by Orth himself and parts made by Souval but also used by Orth in their awards) and commissioned a maker to assembly the parts...and finally when they needed more parts went into new dies.
I cannot understand that "only" if L15 marked but Souval parts it is postwar.
May be the L15 maker mark was ordered by mistake by Orth, or was made by mistake during wartime by Orth, but rejected and not used...there are just many examples to think it was a very small lot wartime made by mistake.
We know Deumer anomaly, it is scarce and after the war war nobody assembled nazi awards with such parts and markings.
Maybe Dietrich has any proof (provenance) to state Orth really used the L15 maker mark during war production, I would thank any new information.
My true feeling is awards L15 marked are all of them postwar assembled.
Anyway, time to time.

[Dietrich Maerz]

The truth is very easy: Orth used the L15 pin on its EK1 and its KVK1. Why would somebody fake that? The pins were used after the war, together with other left over parts to create first the hybrids and later on the complete fakes.

The prove is in the EK1s and KVK1s. Nobody needs to believe it, there are tons of other EKs and KVKs one can buy. For me it is clear.

[Eklipse]

Dietrich, for me it is not clear, I disagree.
Best regards.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Ok, fair enough.
But now make your case: why are there perfectly correct EK 1s and KVK 1s from F. Orth with just one difference between both, the "L". Same obverse, same catch, same hing, same pin,
The only workable solution is that F. Orth produced these crosses after the was, using the L15 pin instead of the 15 pin. Now, if that is the case, how would you know that they didn't use the 15 pin also after the war?

I guess, one would need to find a war-time cross with L15 .....