EK1 "20", EK1 without MM

[Oscar]

Hi all,

Need some help with these crosses. Is it good Zimmermann? Who is the maker of second cross?

Thank You very much for all comments!

















Without MM

[Ludwig]

Yes, the Zimmermann is a good one.

[sanya13]

Hí Rob
The first a good Carl Friedrick Zimmermann mm 20 and the second cross too Zimmermann only that a Fritz Zimmermann unmarked ( 6 ) type

[Oscar]

Thanks a lot for opinions

[Douglas 5]

Yes ... very nice Oscar . Been looking for that type of Fritz Zimmermann for my EK2 .

Douglas

[ben bijker]

The second ek1 has a fake core.
Seen that not to long ago shown on WAF as well.
(Or maybe on one of the german fora)

Anyway, the core is NOT contemporary.

[Douglas 5]

Can we get a side view of the 2nd cross to view the seam ?

Douglas

[Oscar]

I have only this one below. I'll ask seller about additional photos of the seam and will add them asap.

[Douglas 5]

Interesting Ben - know where it was ? Need to check my EK2 now .

Well Oscar .... does not look good even with this picture . A few signs of re-soldering !

Douglas

[sanya13]

yes the core not same ( big swatika ,another date number) possible ,but why
here is mm 6

[Douglas 5]

Sanya

That is a strong but not the big or UB size swastika .

Douglas

[Douglas 5]

One large core comparison with the same frame .

Douglas

[grueni1208]

The second ek1 has a fake core.
Seen that not to long ago shown on WAF as well.
(Or maybe on one of the german fora)

Anyway, the core is NOT contemporary.

Ben is right.

Interesting to see the ribbon ring mark on top of the first EK I.

[streptile]

The second ek1 has a fake core.

I agree with Ben.

I have seen this before, for example with Deumer Schinkels.

There is a very good -- but not perfect -- fake Deumer Schinkel core. The fakers open an authentic Deumer EK2 whose frame matches the Schinkel, probably a 1914, add the fake core and reseal it. So the cross is almost indistinguishable from the real thing.

I believe fakers do this to legitimize their fake cores. If one or two slip through undetected, then future collectors will begin to accept these cores as authentic. Once the core enters the canon of originals, the complete fakes then become easier to pass.

I wish I saved the photo of that Deumer Schinkel EK2 with the fake core. I thought I did but for some reason I can no longer find it. It was one of the best fakes out there, because it was half real. Same story with this "Zimmermann" here.

We owe a lot to really dedicated collectors like Ben for pointing out these anomalies. They can so easily be missed.

[ben bijker]

Here's the "other" ek1 I was referring to.
It was on MFF,
It looks like a Mayer, but take a good look at the date and you will see.....