Is EK1 Souval pre-45?

[Tony Mickelson]

Here is an unmarked EK1 with a Souval frame and dip "3." The back pin sides were filed down so the width of the pin has been altered. Is this a pre-45 or post war?

[Tony Mickelson]

More pictures

Here are closer pictures of the hinge and hook.

[Tony Mickelson]

Oh I forgot, a magnet will stick to the core.

[sanya13]

Hí Tony
IMO this the Souval cross a after war period piece

[Tony Mickelson]

This is a frustrating hobby-help

Thanks for your input Sanya, but this is very confusing for me. I have looked at the Souval articles on other forums and Peter's article on Souval Frames in this forum. My understanding a drooping or hanging 3 is acceptable on an EK1 (but not on RK's) for wartime production. The claw ends and the small defect on the left side of top arm are present and pictures of the hinge and hook look exactly like the hinge and hook of other examples that claim to be original. As I mentioned the long pin on the back was post war modification because the pin has been filed down. So can somebody please explain to me what I am missing here-I am so confused on these Souval framed EK1?
Tony

[boch_62]

I agree with Sanya - Souval's core with "deep 3" and "swaz without pedestal" and with set-up like 1957 type for me is rather "post-war" too.

Regards
Jarek

[Patrick W]

this isn't a 57er setup, it is a known wartime setup with filed down pin. The cross is pre May 45 IMO and perfectly ok

[boch_62]

this isn't a 57er setup, it is a known wartime setup with filed down pin. The cross is pre May 45 IMO and perfectly ok

I did not write 57-er set-up, but only "like" ... besides I congratulate you self-confidence, in the case of Souval's crosses is a big deal
I can only write "rather" ...

Jarek

[sanya13]

Hí Tony
here is the 100% war time Souval type

[sanya13]

and here is the post war Souval back

[Tony Mickelson]

Past threads

Thanks Sanya for your input. I reviewed numerous past threads to include your past comments and this is what I learned. on 04-24-2004, Peter Wiking showed the back of a Souvel 57 cross with the same hinge as you have on your original era EK1 example and numerous examples of my EK1 back style were considered original to include some of your own comments on past threads. One thing that there is no question about: my cross is 100% Souval and well made. It has the claw frame w/ defect on upper arm with a fat Swastika with drooping 3 on the core as well as the hinge and catch on the back (don't forget the pin has been filed down.) Because of this, a portion of forum members comments on past threads believe that this type of 100% Souval EK1 is wartime. The problem is by reading other threads. Rudolf Souval's molds survived the war and Herr Souval continued to make crosses well after the war up to the 70's if I understood those threads correctly. In the earlier threads on the forum, it appeared at time the more experience members would get into heated arguments about pre and post war Souval's. So that is why I guess many other knowledgeable members of the forum stayed quiet about this subject since it has been argued and argued over again. Since my cross is 100% Souval with the features I mentioned, again many members believe this type of cross is pre-1946. Others believe since Souval continue to make crosses after the war, crosses like mine are post war. The remaining members aren't sure one way or the other. So the bottom line I guess is that nobody really knows-it is just a matter of opinion.

[Stu W]

I agree with Patrick that it's a pre May 45 cross.

Regards,
Stu

[streptile]

Thanks Sanya for your input. I reviewed numerous past threads to include your past comments and this is what I learned. on 04-24-2004, Peter Wiking showed the back of a Souvel 57 cross with the same hinge as you have on your original era EK1 example and numerous examples of my EK1 back style were considered original to include some of your own comments on past threads. One thing that there is no question about: my cross is 100% Souval and well made. It has the claw frame w/ defect on upper arm with a fat Swastika with drooping 3 on the core as well as the hinge and catch on the back (don't forget the pin has been filed down.) Because of this, a portion of forum members comments on past threads believe that this type of 100% Souval EK1 is wartime. The problem is by reading other threads. Rudolf Souval's molds survived the war and Herr Souval continued to make crosses well after the war up to the 70's if I understood those threads correctly. In the earlier threads on the forum, it appeared at time the more experience members would get into heated arguments about pre and post war Souval's. So that is why I guess many other knowledgeable members of the forum stayed quiet about this subject since it has been argued and argued over again. Since my cross is 100% Souval with the features I mentioned, again many members believe this type of cross is pre-1946. Others believe since Souval continue to make crosses after the war, crosses like mine are post war. The remaining members aren't sure one way or the other. So the bottom line I guess is that nobody really knows-it is just a matter of opinion.

You nailed it.

[boch_62]

How many collectors more will find that Souval's crosses is not "porridge with milk" ... I will answer - many and many ...

I have a large humility to Souval's crosses, and several times over the past years I changed my mind about dating (war-time or post-war) various types of them.

Jarek

[sanya13]

+1

how many collectors more will find that souval's crosses is not "porridge with milk" ... I will answer - many and many ... Thumbsup

i have a large humility to souval's crosses, and several times over the past years i changed my mind about dating (war-time or post-war) various types of them.

Jarek