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**Douglas 5** · 09-22-2015, 11:24 AM

Yes Alf - the bent flaw is an indicator of an early original S&L frame die and or used component found on un-marked and 4 marked crosses .

Stafans R3 with the same frame flaw is an undisputed post war fake using this original frame die .

For this to happen S&L had to have sold the worn die at some stage . Was it during the war of after ???

Douglas

**mp409mm** · 09-22-2015, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by Douglas 5 View Post

Yes Alf - the bent flaw is an indicator of an early original S&L frame die and or used component found on un-marked and 4 marked crosses .

Stafans R3 with the same frame flaw is an undisputed post war fake using this original frame die .

For this to happen S&L had to have sold the worn die at some stage . Was it during the war of after ???

Douglas

Thanks Mate .

so it is not easy to know fake from original since the same die is used.
Alf.

**Douglas 5** · 09-22-2015, 01:35 PM

Depends on the cross - the R3 is easy .. as the core is the main give away .... others are not that easy .

Douglas

**mp409mm** · 09-22-2015, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by Douglas 5 View Post

Depends on the cross - the R3 is easy .. as the core is the main give away .... others are not that easy .

Douglas

I thought so......... Thanks
Alf.

**streptile** · 09-22-2015, 02:16 PM

To me the easiest way to see that these frames are postwar is the indistinct, worn look, especially of the inner corners. You can see it very well on, for example, this EK below. See those rounded down, flattened inner corners? This is totally typical of the postwar striking of this frame.

A genuine wartime cross with heavy wear will show its wear differently, with wear from contact rather than a worn die.

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**streptile** · 09-22-2015, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by 5tefan View Post

Here the L58 marked with 800 too

BH Mayer core, too.

**mp409mm** · 09-23-2015, 01:29 AM

Originally posted by streptile View Post

To me the easiest way to see that these frames are postwar is the indistinct, worn look, especially of the inner corners. You can see it very well on, for example, this EK below. See those rounded down, flattened inner corners? This is totally typical of the postwar striking of this frame.

A genuine wartime cross with heavy wear will show its wear differently, with wear from contact rather than a worn die.

Interesting and good advice, Thank you Streptile.
The dies were they made hand made ?

Alf.

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