Strange EK II ribbon

[Green]

I have a ribbon with an orange color and it is smaller than a standard EK II ribbon.
The ribbon endured the burn and UV test...... for what this is worth!

Can somebody help me to identify this ribbon?

Thanks in advance!


EK II Ribbon.jpg

EK II Ribbon.jpg

[CMSgt]

ribbon

That is the early EKII ribbon, generally found with Schinkle EKIIs. Jim

[streptile]

That is the early EKII ribbon, generally found with Schinkle EKIIs. Jim

I disagree. It's a ribbon meant for wrapping medalbars or for wearing in the buttonhole of the tunic.

In my opinion there is no such thing as a "Schinkel ribbon" and all EK2s came with 30mm ribbons.

[CMSgt]

ribbon

I disagree. It's a ribbon meant for wrapping medalbars or for wearing in the buttonhole of the tunic.

In my opinion there is no such thing as a "Schinkel ribbon" and all EK2s came with 30mm ribbons.

That was what I was told by one of our members. Always willing to learn. Jim

[Green]

Streptile, thank you for helping me out to identify the ribbon

CMSgt also thanks for your reaction.....I think we both have learned something

[ben bijker]

I disagree. It's a ribbon meant for wrapping medalbars or for wearing in the buttonhole of the tunic.

In my opinion there is no such thing as a "Schinkel ribbon" and all EK2s came with 30mm ribbons.

Well, seems like I missed something

If these were not intended for the ek (schinkels, mainly) why does 90% of the schinkels have a narrow ribbon?

Where do the 20cm pieces of narrow ribbon come from, or why do these exist in this length?

Are you duggesting these pieces of narrow ribbon were handed out for wear in the botton hole?
Why would they do that?
The regular ribbon that came wirh the cross was 28 cm in length, long enough for the ribbon bsr, the button hole AND the cross itself

So I do wonder why this new theory came from.
I don't buy it, it doesn't make sense to me at all.

[ben bijker]

No one?
I really would like to know where the theory comes from that Schinkels also had the wider ribbons....

[byterock]

Most likely started by the same person who said 'Brass' or 'Tombac' cores where made for the Kriegsmarine.

Most likely just a case where manufactures made do with what they could get early in the war until the LDO set up some sort of standard later in the war.

[streptile]

Hey Ben,

Sorry I missed your earlier post; I am not able to check into the forum quite as regularly lately.

25mm ribbons were manufactured primarily for use on wrapping medalbars. We see the use of 25mm ribbons for medalbar wrap dating back to the transition from trapezoid mount bars (popular 19th C. style) to court-mount (emerging as a popular style in the decades before WWI). Most court-mount bars use 25mm ribbons. Of course there are exceptions to this and every rule, especially when the bar is a one- or two-place bar. In that case the 30mm ribbon was often used. But for the most part, medalbars use 25mm ribbon. 30mm ribbons were manufactured for awarding with EK2s.

I really would like to know where the theory comes from that Schinkels also had the wider ribbons....

I think the theory is that Schinkels have narrow ribbons. The rule (regulation) states that the correct ribbon width is 30mm. This was true for all EKs starting in 1870. So where did the theory that Schinkels take a 25mm ribbon come from?

To answer this, I would ask: why would there be a brief time during which certain makers used 25mm ribbons on crosses that were not yet known as "Schinkels"? As we know, the term and the phenomenon of "Schinkels" was not developed until the 1980s. So it doesn't make any sense to me that someone, in 1939, would have developed a regulation to put medalbar ribbons on some subset of crosses which wasn't even recognized at the time as a distinct subset. The 1914 EKs that are the fathers of Schinkels all have 30mm ribbons. 1870 EK2s, which are generally even narrower, also have 30mm ribbons. 1813 EK2s, narrower still, used 35mm ribbons. To the extent that the authorities were concerned with the new narrow-frame 1939 EKs (that came to be known as Schinkels) at all, they were simply concerned with terminating their production as expeditiously as possible and replacing them with new 44mm frames. So it does not seem believable that someone would have required these odd, half-caste EK2s to have a particular width of ribbon, against all tradition and regulation, when all they wanted to do was eliminate them from production.

If these were not intended for the ek (schinkels, mainly) why does 90% of the schinkels have a narrow ribbon?

Some small proportion of EK2s (of any type) do now sport 25mm ribbons. Whether these were originally awarded with the cross due to some shortage or oversight, or whether they were added by collectors out of ignorance of the regulation, is not possible to say in most cases. To explain how the theory that 25mm ribbons are correct for Schinkels evolved, I imagine that, somewhere along the road, someone saw some of these 25mm ribbons on Schinkels and thought it sort of looked right. From this developed a theory that the narrow ribbon belonged with the smaller cross. To the extent that many Schinkels do now come with 25mm ribbons, I think they were added by collectors who believed, incorrectly in my view, they were "restoring" the correct ribbon to the cross.

Here is an older thread in which this was discussed also.