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Awarded LDO marked EK1s

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    Awarded LDO marked EK1s

    Guys - Forgive me if this has been discussed before but here is what I was thinking... The consensus is that LDO marked EK1s were for private purchase - you will see a guy with an EK1 (wither unmarked or PKZ marked) who later bought an LDO marked cross at a local retailer for back-up purposes. It is reasonable that a guy could have an EK1 that he wore on a regular basis at the front, etc., but wore a new one for a formal portrait or wedding.

    Isn't it possible, however, that there were a few isolated instances where LDOs were awarded? Two scenarios....

    1. It's late in the war and an awarding authority is in the midst of making multiple awards. The paperwork is processed but the shipment from the OKH/PA or PKZ has not come in (or has run out). The local authority skirts the rules and acquires a box of say, 20, for awarding purposes froma local retailer. Let's say the awarding authority is 9. Sicherungsdivision headquartered in Gotenhafen (Gdynia) in March 1945. They are neck deep in evacuating soldiers and civilians and from the Frisches Haff and see numerous soldiers and sailors distinguishing themselves in the chaos. There are no more OKM/PA or PKZ crosses in inventory but there are retailers in Gotenhafen who still have crosses and a junior officer is sent to retrieve them.

    2. The PKZ orders (or directs) a shipment of crosses from a major manufacturer - let's say Deumer, Meybauer or W&L. A shipment goes out but its the wrong type - they get a large shipment of LDO crosses instead. Perhaps it's possible that the LDO crosses are not returned but forwarded anyway, either because the demand for crosses by awarding authorities is so high or the forwarding is a mistake; a tired or hung-over clerk inadvertently forwards them rather than returns them.

    Obviously, these scenarios are made up and they can likely be picked apart. However, it's quite likely that alternatives to the rule occurred at times and that there were guys who received an LDO EK1 in late 1944 or early 1945 from their General. Food for thought?

    #2
    So who's got the group with a supposed awarded LDO marked EK1?

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      #3
      Originally posted by Darrell View Post
      So who's got the group with a supposed awarded LDO marked EK1?
      No one specifically. This is purely hypothetical but, in my opinion, plausible. I think it could be an interesting conversation, especially when we all have different takes on groups, and whether they are put together over the last 70 years or not.
      Last edited by Brian R; 07-03-2015, 01:01 PM.

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        #4
        A group with an LDO-marked EK is not necessarily put together and should not be labelled at that. What always throws a red flag is when a PKZ-marked EK is sold as the "awarded cross" and the award date is prior to March 1941. Happened a lot in the past and still happens again and again. The only question in such a case is whether the dealer is ignorant or a crook.

        To comment on the general question: Yes, everything is possible and the saying that "Every rule has an exception" is surely valid in such theoretical cases.
        However, the huge majority of testable cases confirms the rules and regulations and when one is familiar of how the process of awarding the EK was handled (including the lists that needed to be filled out in reporting the assumed projections and the stock on hand) one has some difficulty to believe that a division was running out of supplies.
        Surely there were cases when a retretaing HQ was forced to leave behind their stock of medals ("Russian hoard") but that was mainly in areas and at times when there was no LDO-approved retailer near by ..... and for sure there were other priorities than to procure an LDO cross.
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          #5
          Originally posted by Dietrich Maerz View Post
          A group with an LDO-marked EK is not necessarily put together and should not be labelled at that. What always throws a red flag is when a PKZ-marked EK is sold as the "awarded cross" and the award date is prior to March 1941. Happened a lot in the past and still happens again and again. The only question in such a case is whether the dealer is ignorant or a crook.

          To comment on the general question: Yes, everything is possible and the saying that "Every rule has an exception" is surely valid in such theoretical cases.
          However, the huge majority of testable cases confirms the rules and regulations and when one is familiar of how the process of awarding the EK was handled (including the lists that needed to be filled out in reporting the assumed projections and the stock on hand) one has some difficulty to believe that a division was running out of supplies.
          Surely there were cases when a retretaing HQ was forced to leave behind their stock of medals ("Russian hoard") but that was mainly in areas and at times when there was no LDO-approved retailer near by ..... and for sure there were other priorities than to procure an LDO cross.
          Agreed, the PKZ or LDO cross from before early 1941 is definitely a red flag. We do see, however, LDO crosses in groups where the award was, indeed, an early one.

          I agree that the scenarios I presented are somewhat far-fetched, and the second scenario seems more plausible than the first. But I would think that there must have been scenarios when things ran out - just look at the times we see EK1 documents with the 1 crossed out for awarding of the EK2. That is an example of a shortage of documents from state printers.

          So, yes, there is an exception to every rule and we will need actual proof in a group to say this happened.

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