K&Q electron miscroscopy preliminary results- facinating

[milsurp]

Agreed.

I wonder if this will push the price up of certain controversial items, mint 65 RK's and mint 26 EKI's to name two....

Craig,
She shares all the die flaws, so I am not worried. This is just to enlarge the data pool and show correlation with Tom's RK. This will supplement our traditional analysis, not replace it!
Marc

[MH184]

Kettering, Northants Craig,

I did share the result's, true not to the extent of Tom....but the information provided via the means was less explanatory so to speak, there was some reluctance to share the exact information on their part.

I wasn't the first in idea, concept or trial money or no money......this isn't a bitch post on acclaim, more the fact I'm fighting the corner of boxes and packets.

Credit due where worthy Tom has taken this hobby to new heights of prognosis and thought. Far beyond my provincial research.

I just found it daunting that there was no recognition in the 'paper field'.

Liverpool is where my research was conducted and via a museum in London etc....they were very reluctant to oblige me so some restraint also had to be held...as corners were cut and help provided where I wouldn't normally get it.

I had to respect that.

Kr

Marcus

[milsurp]

Marcus we are virtually neighbours.. I live near Oundle...

Oh sorry I must have missed the thread. Well good on both you and Tom, for doing what you think is right, this has been suggested quite a few times by all accounts, but you two did it.

[MH184]

Oundle, I've been there a many a night on the beer, years ago mind you now, a nip down the A 14....a very nice little old market town !

Nice area to live in.

Kr

Marcus

[Marc Garlasco]

I asked the technician at VA Tech about testing fabric. His reply is below. I will ask the Dr. I am working with...

"Um...don't know... never tried it.
Might have to encase it in exposy or something."

[Si1964]

Firstly I gave up collecting medals a long time ago and have been too affraid to really buy anything subsequently {although I did get an EKII recently}. So my congratulations to those on this step forward on cross construction.

A question I have, which is sort of inline with this thread, how where crosses painted? Where they dipped or sprayed? Depending on the method used and how the paint was applied, would it not be possible to use a micrometer and test these medals for there paint thicknesses? This may help to add to the information gathered from an SEM test?

Anyway a very interesting thread..... by the way I got an RK fake from Peter W for my own personal study etc, I don't know how good it is? If Peter doesn't post an answer here, I will post some pics for you to decide as I am happy to lend it for further research.

Marc will you be using the same methodology as Tom used? As already mentioned by Brian, a slightly different approach may result is slightly differing results???

[Marc Garlasco]

Simon,

I plan to replicate Tom's efforts as closely as possible. NY ain't Iowa, but we will give it our best!
Marc

[Frank Heukemes]

Tom,

A BIG step into the right direction, congratulations!

To all: despite the euphoria, let me mention that this will NOT scare fakers too much. This method is good for finding out about your items AFTER you have bought them and the question if an item will be taken back by a dealer based on such an analysis is STILL based purely on the goodwill of the dealer. This will not prevent anybody from gaining the neccessary knowledge in the future, especially when it comes to more common items, which do not justify such an investion.
But it will be great for BIG item purchases, where some dealers might be willing to allow for a certain decision time and within that period the item could be tested.

[Marc Garlasco]

Frank,

I think this method might be a great COA for high-priced items. I am sure if I have a K&Q with a SEM COA from a University it will sell pretty fast. But what I find most interesting is finding out the chemical composition of all of these for research purposes. I fully intend to have all my war badges checked. I would love to see how PABs, for example, differed chemically by maker or over time by the same maker. Just so much fun for an uber-geek!
Marc

[WARLORD]

Having read the research, I think great, but there is one flaw, the original material is avalable. So produce the item then treat it with period finnish. The anlysis only confirms that the copky is now original because the finnish is perriod. This is but a broad paint brush of how the faker can work.

[Peter Wiking]

Frank,

I think this method might be a great COA for high-priced items. I am sure if I have a K&Q with a SEM COA from a University it will sell pretty fast. But what I find most interesting is finding out the chemical composition of all of these for research purposes. I fully intend to have all my war badges checked. I would love to see how PABs, for example, differed chemically by maker or over time by the same maker. Just so much fun for an uber-geek!
Marc

One thing though. Go easy with that washing on late warbadges. Half the bronse/silver coat could fall off

Cheers.
Peter

[Marc Garlasco]

Peter,
No probem - I'll just have the dog lick them clean!
Marc

[WalterB]

Having read the research, I think great, but there is one flaw, the original material is avalable. So produce the item then treat it with period finnish. The anlysis only confirms that the copky is now original because the finnish is perriod. This is but a broad paint brush of how the faker can work.

The original material is available?!? Come on man, be realistic. There may be a can of period paint surviving (which is probably a stretch in itself), but you mean to tell me that the fakers will get ahold of it? What about the period frames? In the very unlikely event that talented fakers (by that I mean fakers with the knowledge, experience and skill necessary to assemble the KC in a manner that physically, it is an identical match to period KCs) get ahold of such "spare parts", you have to admit that such supplies would be rather limited. So, this SEM technique may effectively weed out 95% of the fake KCs. That sounds like a pretty effective tool to me!

[WARLORD]

Perriod pain and enamel is avalble here in the UK. You have restorers here that have many different things. Concervation is one of the great atributes of antiques in this country

[Marc Garlasco]

My friend, even with all the original components you still need to manufacture it with all the die flaws we are attuned to. SEM is but ONE tool in a collector's toolbox of fake detection...
Marc