Are they all fake? A new KC owner and his worries

[Joshua Morris]

Hi All,
I've been a member for while and not posted much so this is effectively my first post! I am a member of a FB group about medal collecting and pretty nasty discussion has broken about third reich awards and reference books. "There all fake", "99% fake," "not worth collecting" are points that have been raised. As well as some pretty un-gentlemanly discussion about Mr Maerz's books. Its been argued that "Certificates of Authenticity" are "worthless". This has got me a bit worked up!

What does everybody think about that? I am no expert but I purchased my lovely S&L Micro 800 with a cert of A (from Maerz) and am quite happy with it. Are these just the ramblings of those who have been stung with fakes? Hopefully you can see the images of my KC, Not in the best condition, not in the worst condition but its been worn from the looks of the ribbon.

[callum]

I assume these people have been at the MAX shows since its beginning and been collecting since the 60-70s?

The cross looks fine to me but then again - no expert here.
Just a few people with bias opinions. I'd stay away from groups like that when you have excellent sources and knowledge bases like these forums - what more could you ask for really?

Best,
Callum

[Top Buzzer]

Mmmm

To me , people that go metal detecting, unless you looking for Third Reich items,is on the same level as men that go train spotting . Seems to attract a certain type of individual. Yes the hobby has its problems with fakes as with all Collectables but to say 99% of Third Reich Militaria is fake tells me your men on the metal detecting forum know 100% about anything to do with our Third Reich collecting interests and would not be able to tell you what the 1% genuine item would be in amounst all the fakes they are talking about. Are they all making this startling statement on Third Reich items and a highly regarded collector and author based on extensive knowledge and research into the hobby?
These people cannot possibly be collectors or anything associated with it and its like people on here making a stark statement about metal detecting when we have never put on a hat, anorak or carried a flask of tea and set out digging up fields in our lives.
Invite them to come onto our forum and we can discuss this with them in depth. They would be eaten alive under a tidal wave of abuse if they start that nonsense.

You are obviously a man that appreciates quality in invest in a KC and its a great piece to build your collection around. You bought it from a man with a respected reputation and with a lifetime guarantee. It will also be based on known originals and the members on the forum will approve it.

Stay away from that metal detecting forum of yours as they seem to enjoy winding you up and upsetting you as it seems 99% of them do not know what they are talking about.

Mike

[Joshua Morris]

Hey Mike,
It was a "Medal Collecting" rather than a "metal detecting" forum but everything you had said is spot on. Somewhat more shockingly is these people have large collections of medals from all over the world, but when it comes to Third Reich the hatred begins to flow...Funny that.

[Top Buzzer]

Yes

They are probably as jealous as I am with that KC you have

I do not know if you are new to collecting but my first items were a black wound badge and a Russian front medal!

I just could not part with that kind of cash for an item that from a distance looks like an iron cross 2nd class..... Perhaps one day.

Stay on the forum and build a brilliant collection with your KC being the crown.

[Top Buzzer]

Ha ha ha

Just noticed!!!!

I had just woke up after a heavy night! Mistook 'medal collecting' for 'metal detecting'

Lol.... Sorry

[Mark Gibson]

Josh,

You have a very nice example of an original 1939-1945 period Knights Cross. Can't get any better than that. Dietrich Maerz is highly respected because of the work that he has put into identifying originals so that we novices can avoid be stung for thousands. I've learnt so much from his book even to the point of trying to identify the RK's being worn by members of the Afrikakorps from photographs (my interest). I would love to add an RK to the collection one day.

Good to see another Brissie boy on the forum, although I live close to the snow these days because of my work.

Kindest Regards,

Mark

[Tom B]

IMO original RK. The loop looks strange ?? Tom

[kraut72]

Juncker type 800 mark

nice cross

[Joshua Morris]

Hi Tom, Maerz did note (on the C of A) the loop looks less than typical on this cross. I'm lead to believe that this is possible because of the way the ends were cut, not 100% the same every time?

Also Kraut72 it's a S&L not Juncker, sorta wish it was a Juncker but just glad to own one.

[Leroy]

The cross is fine. The loop, as others have said, is atypical as S&L did not normally use loops with a "straight cut" at the ends. The '800' marking on the loop, as also mentioned, does not match with S&L. No one can safely tell you when the loop joined the cross.

[kraut72]

Hi Tom, Maerz did note (on the C of A) the loop looks less than typical on this cross. I'm lead to believe that this is possible because of the way the ends were cut, not 100% the same every time?

Also Kraut72 it's a S&L not Juncker, sorta wish it was a Juncker but just glad to own one.

the loop Juncker type 800 mark....

the cross of course S&L

[Joshua Morris]

So its pretty certain the Loop isn't original? 800 marked in the incorrect place and straight cut ends? The next question has to be leave it as is or find a genuine S&L loop?

[Leroy]

The loop could be original to the period, but just not this cross. An S&L loop is not impossible to find, but you should first look at photos (here on WAF in the database or in reference books) to see what an S&L loop looks like, then look at dealer sites. Someone will have one.

[Joshua Morris]

The loops probably an original but just a Juncker. I don't think i'll replace it unless some good argument is made. Never know how it got there in the first place. Could have been put there by the recipient or by the dealer last year...