Don Cossack regiment badge

[tystgaard]

Believe this a controversial type of this badge?

It came to a collection around 30 years ago with
some original items.

Is it proven these types are made in the 1960s?

Thanks
Nicolai

[tystgaard]

2

2

[tystgaard]

3

3

[mametz]

I don,t think these are accepted as original, not sure when they came out
60s/70s maybe
Mametz

[Dick Pumphrey]

Don Cossack Badge

Gentlemen,
If my feeble memory serves me right, I think these were from a dealer back
in the mid to late 1960's - Hollywood Military Hobbies. He came up with quite
a few "rarities" back then. Hope this helps!
Regards,
Dick Pumphrey

[tystgaard]

Thanks

Thanks

[Ludwig]

Yes, as far as I know, this type is post war produced. I have had two or three of them.

[Stan]

I bought one from Tony Oliver in 1967. Cost then was £0.50.

I told him I thought it was a fake and he agreed and paid my money back.

Stan

[tystgaard]

Interesting

Hi Stan thanks very much for your reply

Interesting. Can you remember why you believed it fake back then!
Where there many fakes around that early other than post war
Souval and S&L?. Ad that time German medals most have been
very cheap compared to today's prices.

BR
Nicolai

[Ludwig]

Hi Stan thanks very much for your reply

Interesting. Can you remember why you believed it fake back then!
Where there many fakes around that early other than post war
Souval and S&L?. Ad that time German medals most have been
very cheap compared to today's prices.

BR
Nicolai

You wouldn´t believe how cheap you could buy things those days (70´s)...

[tystgaard]

Yes

I wish that I started collecting ad age 0 in 1977:-)

The badge in question seem very well made, from a time
when there where not so many fakes around and not so much
money to make by fakers. Just wanna know if it is proven fake
and no other possibilities as hoards are possible?

But don't no much about the collecting in the 1960s

Thanks
Nicolai

[tystgaard]

Dealer site

Found this in a Google search.

M4219cs. 5th Regiment Don Cossack Cross, Type II. Nice looking aluminum-based 5th Regiment Don Cossack Cross, Type II being the style with the brass pin considered correct by some and controversial by others. See pictures...$ 1500.00


http://www.germanwarbooty.com/item-m...ls%20m4219.htm


From the site Germanwarbooty

BR
Nicolai

[tystgaard]

Thanks

Dont get me wrong I total accept these
probably are made in the 60s. Just wanted to know if
it are documented. Been in contact with a collector that
might have confirmed this.

Thanks
Nicolai

[Rick C]

As time goes by, I’ve watched as different versions of this cross being deemed the only authentic ‘version’ and certain characteristics of these versions alleged to either prove (or disprove) a piece’s period manufacture. The collector ‘community’ at large appears to adhere to some odd belief or legend that there is only one accepted configuration (one die) that produced the authentic Cossack cross. The owners of each variation of the badge will//have made the case for their variation but, documented evidence (?), you’ll find little or none. Apparently, acquiring an example for one’s collection is essentially an exercise in ‘faith based’ collecting.

Accepted experts/authors (such as Detlev Niemann or Forman have posted different photos of examples, claimed to be authentic that, from one edition of their reference books to the next, change from one version to another, based upon popular opinion of the day. For example, in Detlev Niemann edition that I own, the ‘curly 9’ (curly 9 being in the ‘1941 date), is featured on page 794 as being an authentic piece.

This version has now been (apparently) reclassified as a post war piece. Where any evidence is found to have made this determination I’ve yet to be able to find either in reference books, the web or the forums but, from what I gather, a ‘mood swing’ took place with little or no empirical data to support it.

Detlev Niemann’s 2008 edition as well as Forman’s 3rd Edition Guide from 2001 features the ‘scar’ version which is, apparently, popular now. This version features a defect to the right of the ‘5’ representing the 5th Don Cossack Regiment which is actually a depression around the curve of the 5. The fact that this flaw is apparently damage to the die used in producing these variants, logically implies (to any thinking individual) that the feature wasn’t intentional, rather, a feature resulting from overuse or damage to an existing die or a hasty replacement of a destroyed die not exhibiting the craftsmanship of one earlier made. My question to the faithful is why would advocates (of this version) assume that before the damage to the die, that crosses weren’t produced not yet having this feature or flaw?

So, what’s popular today?

[Stan]

Rick,

I am the person who first coined the phrases "curly 9" and "Scar" as my badge exhibited both these features and was used by many as the text book example.

I have to say that I came to the same conclusion as you several years ago and sold my cross.

Stan