EK1 SB One Piece Deschler ;-)

[5tefan]

This is a very early EK1. Not sure if Deschler, but could be ;-)

[CMSgt]

Deschler

I believe you are right Stefan. Here is my Deschler to compare against. Jim

[Douglas 5]

Another great cross . A lot rides on this one being a Deschler .

Douglas

[Douglas 5]

Yes Stefan ... yours does match the one Jim posted .

Douglas

[ben bijker]

Yep, another nice one in good condition !

[streptile]

Very nice pieces, but absolutely not made by Deschler in my opinion

[boch_62]

Very nice pieces, but absolutely not made by Deschler in my opinion

Hi Trevor,

So far, almost always I've heard that it's very early Deschler, maybe someone once said, it's Juncker ... and suddenly you say, it's not so ...

So who do you think is the manufacturer of these crosses ?

Regards
Jarek

[streptile]

Hi Jarek,

I don't know who made it. In my opinion it's probably a Berlin maker connected in some way to Juncker, even if the "connection" was something as simple as a shared designer, or even a designer who copied Juncker designs.

But I know who did not make it: Deschler. We know way too much about Deschler's design, prewar EKs, style and timeline to imagine that this piece could fit into it.

So far, almost always I've heard that it's very early Deschler...

Luckily, repetition does not turn a theory into a fact

[Douglas 5]

When it was posted I was hoping a maker to the cross had been determined . As Trevor pointed out the design features do not connect with Deschler .
Trying to put makers to Juncker cores I think a Juncker connection is still there as the same core features are found in a core Juncker used .
Even as Deschler used 2 different cores - both have high top 3s which these do not have .
After comparing it more closely - frame and core features are more in line with a W&L product .

Douglas

[boch_62]

Luckily, repetition does not turn a theory into a fact

You're right, Trevor - fortunately...

I used to think of these crosses, termed early crosses Deschler.
I tried to compare their frames and finishes with other crosses, but with EK2, not EK1.
Prompted the association towards the crosses LUG Variant and Long Flaw Frame ... comes out, it's an association with Juncker, however is ...

Jarek

[StefanK.]

Hi Jarek,

I don't know who made it. In my opinion it's probably a Berlin maker connected in some way to Juncker, even if the "connection" was something as simple as a shared designer, or even a designer who copied Juncker designs.

But I know who did not make it: Deschler. We know way too much about Deschler's design, prewar EKs, style and timeline to imagine that this piece could fit into it.



Luckily, repetition does not turn a theory into a fact

Absolutely what i think!

[streptile]

Absolutely what i think!

Best way to see the link to Juncker is with the 1914 version of this one-piece.

Thanks Stefan for the photo.

.

[Douglas 5]

Certainly the same designer as can be seen on all of the core features .
Here transferred onto a separate core used in a 3 flaw frame . .. right down to the fine 'dimples' on the balls of the 9s !

Douglas

[StefanK.]

thanks for bringing that up Trevor, and you're welcome using my picture!!


Further evidences that speak for a Juncker-connected company maker are:

1) The "one-piece-Berlin/Juncker" cross almost always has a very specific hook. On some cases the same hook can be found with classical Juncker crosses. Look at the Picture to see what i am talking about. The cross in the Center is a marked, classical Juncker, the others illustrate the one-piece variant. I have never seen such Kind of hook with other manufacturers.

2) Furthermore the two-piece-screwback can be found with Juncker crosses as well!!

3) In the book by Wernitz one can see a AWS EK1 with the same type of needle and a Juncker "800" marking.


My conclusion is: That one-piece EK discussed in this thread was made by a company strongly connected to CE Juncker/AWS. They used a similar design and shared parts.

[5tefan]

Maybe this could be the solution.
It shows that there is a very big portion of Juncker in this design.
Now I'm more convinced that Juncker could be the maker of this EK1 Unknown Maker. Many Many Thanks