RK ribbon - opinions

[fox-terier]

Hi,
Not my field so I need your help.
What do you think about this one ? I can see that there are 23 white stiches.
Regards,
Piotr

[fox-terier]

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[fox-terier]

..

[kraut72]

post 45

[Dietrich Maerz]

Not commenting on the specific ribbon here, but it is known (I hope) that during the war several companies (Loy, Langensippen & Müller, Kargl & Söhne, Rausch & König, A. Piffrich, Heinrich Heyrich, J. Adensamer, J. Koppold, and some more) were potential manufacturer and supplier of ribbons to all kinds of medals including to the makers of the Knights Cross.

I have no knowledge about the obviously assumed "fact" that all possible maker made exactly the same ribbon (it is known they didn't...) and that makes the determination of the genuity of a RK ribbon very hard - especially just with photos.

However, blatant fakes or post-war replacement ribbons are easily spottable. If the ribbon in question comes close what we know from samples with provenance, the topic becomes a question of believe. The more so if a in hands inspection is not possible.

Unless, of course, somebody has a 100% safe method of determine between war time and post-war. It would be great to learn about such a method!

Dietrich

[Tom B]

post 45

I agree

[fox-terier]

Thanks for you comments,
Piotr

[Leroy]

I agree 100% with Dietrich. I have seen 45mm ribbon with 23 "white stitch count" which I considered perfectly wartime compatible in terms of "feel", fiber type, "burn test", reaction to blacklight and edging construction. At the same time, I have seen 47mm ribbon with 25 "white stitch count" which I also considered compatible using those same criteria. I believe, based on observation of many, many original crosses and their attached ribbons (which were claimed to have come with the cross "as found" (and which appeared to have consistant "age" - a most subtle and subjective criterion) that there is really no 100% accurate test of the wartime-made originality of a ribbon which matches the factors set out above ("feel", fiber type, etc.). There are also (based only on what I have personally seen) 45mm ribbons with with a 30 "white stitch count", as well as ribbons of 40mm width (intended originally not for RK's, but for use on Austrian bars), with varying thread counts. By far, however, the most common "wartime" ribbon encountered is the 45mm with 25 "white stitch count". To me, this is the "textbook" version which has the most collector "acceptability" and is the type likely used as the "issue ribbon" with most crosses. Some recipients used for daily wear only that ribbon, which came in a length originally
which was sufficient to be able to cut several pieces for use in such wear, so the recipient could have a "backup" piece. How many recipients, however, carried with them all the time and in all their situations neatly stored pieces of the original award ribbon from the case? It's my firm belief that if you were somehow able to "catalogue" each and every ribbon seen with every cross and said to have been with the cross "as found" after the war, you would find occasional variances in width and stitch count (not to mention color), which would be a reflection of different manufacturers, different time periods and different circumstances of acquisition and use.

[kraut72]

Gentry

This not asking what do that several manufacturers prepared.
No problem with the 23 stitches, even...but for me texture does not like.

40 mm Austrian ribbon bar 17 stitch/my piece, but one simply EK2 ribbon 18 stitch..

[Leroy]

Gábor - I agree and I really wasn't talking about this ribbon, just the general subject of RK ribbons.

[Antonio Scapini]

IMO it is an original wartime ribbon.
Really don't understand what's wrong on it, maybe someone who said it is post war can explain why it should be post war.
Texture is perfectly matching with wartime ribbons.