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    #61
    Originally posted by Brian S View Post
    For me, "4" on the pin is a dead giveaway, POSTWAR.
    So by that rationale Brian, its your opinion that Hans Gunther's cross in post #28 is a fake? This one is evidently straight from the vet and 100% original....

    Tom
    Attached Files
    If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

    New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
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      #62
      Originally posted by Brian S View Post
      For me, "4" on the pin is a dead giveaway, POSTWAR.
      Brian,

      the needles are also on the same EK1 4. The needles were also used by simply Ek1 the Spanish Cross. But the war was still pieces stamped with the L / 16. It's okay. I have some backup pieces with 4 and L / 16th All without the head error.

      Comment

        #63
        Very nice discussion with all of you.

        Comment

          #64
          Tom,

          I think that's possible! Soval scored Cross body of Soval.

          I'm going to compare the cross-body with the eagle 1 model with the original S & L pieces accurately. I have not done. A good point.

          Comment

            #65
            Yes, a postwar piece. Not a fake. Probably acquired by the vet postwar.

            Why would S&L have been so honored to have the only "numbered" Spain Cross? No evidence of these "numbered" crosses (SK's).

            Postwar. Absolutely, no question, no doubt. I would not pay $100 for one of these.

            Show me an order that would resulted in "4" stamped pieces being delivered. You won't find one. If you did, and I doubt you ever will, then it would have been a nod to S&L to the spite of other manufacturers.

            Comment

              #66
              Originally posted by Brian S View Post
              Yes, a postwar piece. Not a fake. Probably acquired by the vet postwar.

              Why would S&L have been so honored to have the only "numbered" Spain Cross? No evidence of these "numbered" crosses (SK's).

              Postwar. Absolutely, no question, no doubt. I would not pay $100 for one of these.

              Show me an order that would resulted in "4" stamped pieces being delivered. You won't find one. If you did, and I doubt you ever will, then it would have been a nod to S&L to the spite of other manufacturers.
              Brian,

              do you mean that piece of Post 61 is a piece After War !?

              Comment

                #67
                Originally posted by Legion Condor View Post
                Leroy I know that that is said over and over again. But this can not be right.....If the piece of you S & L shown, then that would mean the S & L has two variants built. But then why not at war two variants.

                Greeting LC
                Hans Gunter - It will not bother me at all if this piece is NOT an S&L piece.

                Comment

                  #68
                  Originally posted by Legion Condor View Post
                  Brian,

                  do you mean that piece of Post 61 is a piece After War !?

                  Yes. Post war.

                  If my grandfather (who managed to own only one PlM his entire post award life) had purchased a dozen Postwar Pour le Merites and I inherited them from the awardee veteran, would it now make them wartime?

                  Thousands, maybe millions of vets had their awards stripped off them. The "Count" almost died from a head wound when he wouldn't give up his awards.

                  Many of these guys replaced their coveted pieces, swastika and all, and who was producing them, S&L. I have no doubt in their minds they were "their" pieces.

                  Comment

                    #69
                    Originally posted by Brian S View Post
                    Yes. Post war.

                    If my grandfather (who managed to own only one PlM his entire post award life) had purchased a dozen Postwar Pour le Merites and I inherited them from the awardee veteran, would it now make them wartime?

                    Thousands, maybe millions of vets had their awards stripped off them. The "Count" almost died from a head wound when he wouldn't give up his awards.

                    Many of these guys replaced their coveted pieces, swastika and all, and who was producing them, S&L. I have no doubt in their minds they were "their" pieces.
                    Brian,

                    of course not!

                    What is the reason why you say that it is a post-war piece.

                    Comment

                      #70
                      Brian,

                      please show me a war piece in bronze.

                      Comment

                        #71
                        I thought I was clear. The 4 makes it postwar.
                        Attached Files

                        Comment

                          #72
                          If by some miracle Dietrich now has proof that the PKZ ordered SK's I would take it back. But I doubt sincerely he has...

                          Hans, what is the latest requirement for a SK that you have a copy of and can share?

                          I have one from 11.Mai.1940.

                          I could show it but it proves my point, not yours.

                          I have another from August 1940. No avalanche of awards given late or upgraded through new evidence to get the PKZ to order...
                          Last edited by Brian S; 01-21-2015, 08:26 PM.

                          Comment

                            #73
                            Brian,

                            This has nothing to do in this case with the PKZ! S & L has the needles used were also taken for the EK 1. And these were stamped with the exact 4. For this reason, the original war pieces are all stamped again with L / 16.

                            Just because the PKZ has not ordered. Does not tell you that the crosses were not allowed with 4 stamps. To make matters properly again the L / 16 mark.

                            The stamp 4 and the L / 16 are 100% original S & L used in war.

                            Look on the homepage EK1 DNA. As you will see exactly this stamp in the combination L/16 and 4.
                            But Dietrich has documents that show that has led to at least the PKZ book about the awarding of Spain crosses.

                            Comment

                              #74
                              OK, sorry, that's an L/16 on the pin of that cross of yours. Also. That's a head scratcher for sure. But still begs the question what S&L is doing manufacturing SK's after PKZ numbering requirements. With a proper L/16, I could at least put it in the "maybe" pile.

                              Wish the paperwork that the "vet" who owned this could show why he had PKZ numbered cross. Perhaps this was one turned over to the PKZ by S&L "at cost". That would make it an interesting one for sure. But why only S&L?

                              Comment

                                #75
                                Originally posted by Brian S View Post
                                If by some miracle Dietrich now has proof that the PKZ ordered SK's I would take it back. But I doubt sincerely he has...

                                Hans, what is the latest requirement for a SK that you have a copy of and can share?

                                I have one from 11.Mai.1940.

                                I could show it but it proves my point, not yours.

                                I have another from August 1940. No avalanche of awards given late or upgraded through new evidence to get the PKZ to order...
                                Brian,

                                I mean over the last broadcast I of the 1942nd

                                But I am of the opinion that this is not important. I know what you want to say. LDO etc.

                                But that's not the point. The needle is simply used. And 4 is simply already on the needle. The need to SPK was not so high that one has an extra needle ordered.

                                Comment

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