The state of SS-Sturmbannführer Gustav Knittel: a set up?

[Sepp45]

This thread is meant to be a research tool for a "controversial" grouping of awards attributed to SS-Sturmbannführer Gustav Knittel, KC holder on June 4th, 1944.

This group of medals, including the Ritterkreuz, is currently being offered by Andreas-Thies.

It came to my attention two questions that were raised by fellow members of this forum: a) Is that Knittel's wartime cross, as claimed by the selling house? b) how good is the provenance of the group?

[Sepp45]

WAF member Kraut72 pointed out the matter of the KC, saying Knittle's wartime cross is a K&Q and not the Juncker auctioned.

Here the comparative photos!

[Sepp45]

Better pic

[Sepp45]

Another forum member said to me that the original group consisted only of the photos, and not the medals. (This information came directly from the source of Knittle's son, as told to another collector)

[Sepp45]

The sale catalog of Andreas-Thies.

[Sepp45]

I would like to know your thoughts about this group and maybe share some information that would spread some light into this matter.

Regards,
Sepp

[frankandfrank]

The ccc in gold is nearly in mind condition. Date: 13.10.1944. He got this one 12.12.1944 by Himmler ???

[Flemming]

The Rk he is wearing could look like a K&Q indeed.

/Flemming

[ben bijker]

it wouldn't be the first grouping with more then 1 kc.
I once saw a grouping with no less then 3 KC, directly from the relatives.

[46IR]

the loops not the same and why would most awards look worn and used and then theres the nice minty dk. some bits may well be part of the original estate but add ons??? also look at the size difference between the loop holes

[Ludwig]

The ccc in gold is nearly in mind condition. Date: 13.10.1944. He got this one 12.12.1944 by Himmler ???

Holders of the CCC in gold often (I don´t know if always) got two clasps; one "de luxe" with the small hook, and one "every day" clasp.

[Ludwig]

The Rk he is wearing could look like a K&Q indeed.

/Flemming

It is a Klein & Quenzer, but that doesn´t say much. Many KC holders had more than one cross. Sometimes crosses were lost (in the field for example), and had to be replaced.
The information from the son is more alarming, IMO.

[Sepp45]

Holders of the CCC in gold often (I don´t know if always) got two clasps; one "de luxe" with the small hook, and one "every day" clasp.

A photo of the CCC, front and back.

[Ludwig]

Excellent!!!

[tystgaard]

Nice

Fine Juncker KC from him or not. Agree there could have been more crosses.
Think a Juncker 2 could fit his Award date.

Nice... if that clasp is as good as I think... then this Group will be very expensive

Fine Group of medals

BR
Nicolai