Tom
"and please, no fake sale like we had with another questionable piece"
What was that?
"and please, no fake sale like we had with another questionable piece"
What was that?
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George -
Sent you a PM, George.Comment
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So the champions of the dotted cross have no further comments. So I guess we can conclude that there is a uniform concensus that these are in fact, fakes.Comment
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I don't know Tom....I've looked through the Iron Time, Das Eiserne Kreuz and The Iron Cross and I just can't find one featured! However, that doesn't mean anything as only RESEARCH (some flawed) went in to the production of these texts and it might be the long lost 'adolecent' DKiG varient soon to be known as the dotted variety!!!
Just a bit of pre holiday sarcasm
Regards,
DaveComment
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That is a very heartwarming thought! Kind of like "return of the prodigal son" in medal collecting. The fake, after years of wandering, returns repetant with a COA from Detlev, and is welcomed with open arms by the collecting community.Comment
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When i received my cross that i posted earlier in the thread, it puzzled me the dots in the date. I don't like variations, i only like text book examples of items. I have no idea if the cross i had was real or not, but i'll let someone else make that decision, i returned it after a 3 day inspection period.
david
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Tom, you are far too 'spiritual'!!! Being a bit more rough around the edge....if it walks and quacks like a duck...well it must be a duck!!!
Dave...for all intents, a good move!Regards,
DaveComment
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Agreed, Dave! The problem is the emotional attachment that occurs sometimes with pieces. Take my fake SS helmet for instance. I really wanted to believe it was real, but................. like Santa, I will get over this one too.Comment
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Damn .. it must be nice to be that good
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What is really nice to have some real, authentic crosses at hand to be able to compare with fakes! One does not have to be good, just able to compare items side by side. The two other collecting forums have accepted these as fakes as well. What group of unbiased, non-dealer collectors have accepted these fakes as authentic, Darrel?
Does Ivan like these? How about Pieter? Just because some guys have been duped and are happy about does not automatically make a fake real. Again, Darrel, show me the evidence that these are real. There is NONE. Again, if these are good, buy Marcus' and Detlev's fake Klein as well- they look good too!
Additionally, when one is presenting new "variants", the burden of proof is on the piece itself. Otherwise, one would simply make a new variant each week and present it to the market as real. UNLESS THERE IS PROOF, IT IS A FAKE. THE BURDEN OF PROOF RESTS ON THE PIECE ITSELF. Take the 3/4 ring RK variant. There is photographic evidence of recipients wearing these. Where are the "dotted" cross photos? Where are the older collectors showing these from their collections. Where are the crosses with provenance? NOWHERE!Last edited by tom hansen; 11-24-2004, 10:22 PM.Comment
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Darrel-
Jesus can't change my mind, but proof can. If you present proof, I will change my mind, as will everyone else. Just because a bunch of dealers want to unload some fakes does not mean we have to accept them as real. If they like fakes- great. All it does is diminsh their credence in the eyes of collectors.
Why are the wreaths and starburst different? This is something that no one will tackle. Now if it "just because it is a variant", then why are not all the other fakes with differing wreaths good as well? You see, the dealers have entered a slippery slope here. Welcome one fake and it destroys the confidence in all the real pieces, thus ultimately harming their buisness in the long run for a short term profit. This is also the problem with other governments condoning counterfeiting of foreign currency- great short term, but a real problem long term.Comment
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Hmmm
Ok Tom,
To draw a comparison on another badge where two variants of the same maker are both accepted as real....I'd compare these 20's to Juncker pilot's badges.
So your logic would say that either the "J2", or "J3" Juncker Pilot's badges must be fakes because they used two different eagles by the same maker? I think NOT! Go and read the other forum on these if you don't believe me. The Luft guys accept them as both genuine due to the other characteristics typical of a Juncker badge, and yes, the two eagles are totally different, period. So, just to say it's fake cuz they're different is nonsense. This is a prime example where one maker used two different dies for the same badge. How about the thread on 26 EKI's with two different hinge, pin setup's? Same maker, but different hardware so your logic says those are fakes, too! We're on a roll here.
As far as these DK's go, if they've been faking them for 20 years, where are all the rest? Also, why don't the dealers that knowingly sell fakes not have them, and never had? I know because I look at their stuff at every big show, and I have yet to see one on a crook's table. Also, how do explain the honest age mine shows??? How about that patina, and chatter on the enamel??
Again, think what you want, but I disagree.Comment
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These spotted zebras not for my collection. Amazing they turn up so recently and are crowned OK. Why haven't any of the earlier awards books showed one of these?Comment
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