German Cross silver (S&L)

[mpiering]

Hello, what do you think about this DKiS?
What do you think about the silver finish under the swastica? It seems to be very shiny.
And how about the rivets (was the cross already opened?) and the case (s&l postwar case or simple fake? How about the red inlay)?









Thank you, Michael

[Matthieu]

Could be an 1957 version with the EK replaced by a swastika and the central disc then buffed up to hide the damage ?
Case is not period - must be postwar creation ( not standard 57 style ). The rivets look untouched, assume they would look much worse if re-opened.

[Tony T-S]

That sounds a reasonable explanation. It would certainly explain the mirror behind the swaz (the disco ball version) and the less than perfect rivets (post war on a bad day).

[Tom B]

Could be an 1957 version with the EK replaced by a swastika and the central disc then buffed up to hide the damage ?
Case is not period - must be postwar creation ( not standard 57 style ). The rivets look untouched, assume they would look much worse if re-opened.

Totally agree !

[mpiering]

Hello Mathijs, hello Tony, hello Tom,

thank you very much for your input here. I hope to get this cross - so we can look what happend to it.
Have a nice monday, Michael

[Matthieu]

Hello Mathijs, hello Tony, hello Tom,

thank you very much for your input here. I hope to get this cross - so we can look what happend to it.
Have a nice monday, Michael

Good idea ... an interesting postwar piece

[mpiering]

Today I got the cross and I took some pictures.
The silver finish under the swastica isn't refinished in my opinion. But I never saw such a high polished finish.
Sadly the hinge is a little bit loosely (it's glued).

[Dietrich Maerz]

I am quite sure that this cross is a post-war made example. And here is why I think so:

In 1977 Mr. Preuss wrote in a German magazine that he received an order in July 1944 for German Crosses in Gold directly (as it was the norm) from Dr. Doehle of the PKZ. No German Crosses in Silver! It is debateable whether this order of German Crosses in Gold ever made it to the PKZ since (so far) none have shown up in any Klessheim hoard. But what is sureis that any delivery from S&L to the PKZ before the war ended would have been marked with the typical incuse "4" of S&L - the same marking one can find on the "800-4" and the "935-4".

For the two above reasons and the documentary evidence (why would Mr. Preuss tell some fairy tale in 1977, a time when everything was in a nebular state anyway) and the missing "4" (not taking into account that most likely no silver grade was required in mid 1944 anyway. Reason being the low award numbers. The stock at Klessheim was "20" from Zimmermann) I think one can state with some confidence that this cross is a post war cross.

Dietrich

[Leroy]

I agree that this is a postwar cross from S&L . I have seen several exactly like this, with the swastika actually glued on and no "4" on the pin.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Oh, I have to correct myself! Don't know my own sources correctly! Preuss mentioned Gold and Silver grade! But other than that, I still stand to what I wrote above - a clear post war example.

[Leroy]

I think it's important to note that the great bulk of these were made post-1957 by the simple expedient of assembling the cross with no central device, then just sticking on the swastika. The workmanship is generally crappy, the pins never have the necessary "4", and the finish is modern-looking. When you place one of these "57 types" next to a authentic wartime produced piece (and member GeorgeL here has a beautiful example of a DKiG), there is NO doubt about which one is real.

[George L]

Correct, and it doesn't have the colors seen on a 57 version, but wartime IMO, along with the '4' on the pin. It was posted on the thread a while back where I compared it to a silver S&L with swaz that was definitely postwar and 57 examples to show the differences.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=420107

I think it's important to note that the great bulk of these were made post-1957 by the simple expedient of assembling the cross with no central device, then just sticking on the swastika. The workmanship is generally crappy, the pins never have the necessary "4", and the finish is modern-looking. When you place one of these "57 types" next to a authentic wartime produced piece (and member GeorgeL here has a beautiful example of a DKiG), there is NO doubt about which one is real.

[Leroy]

Someday, George and I will have a "meeting of the minds" on his wartime DKiG.

[Thomas Durante]

I agree with the others, postwar S&L DK.

George, beautiful cross Still would love to see a shot of the reverse and closeup of the pin if you get a chance.

Thanks

Tom

[mpiering]

Hi friends, thank you very much for your input on this DKiS!
Is the case a modern repro or could it be a S&L product?

Thank you, Michael