Any Ideas on This Cross w/Swords (opinions appreciated) *

[Mike K.]

I bought this cross years back (I think it was in a lot with other items), and never knew if it was any good... no markings that I can tell.
Anyone have any thoughts?
Thanks very much!
Front:

Back:

[Hank C.]

I don't know much about Span crosses, but the pin reminds me of something post -war produced.

best
Hank

[Tony T-S]

I wonder if L58 used to be in the box on the pin. It reminds me of a Souval pin. I don't think the eagles are soldered in place on Souvals though. It will be interesting to see what people think.

[mloppkit]

This Spanish Cross is a post war example, "Droop-Tail" eagles were not found on period Spanish Crosses,

Best Regards,
Michael

[Thomas Durante]

Postwar S&L IMO.

Tom

[Mike K.]

Thank you, guys!
A little disappointed, as the quality looked so nice, but I guess another one for the "fake pile"
I appreciate all the input!

[Tony T-S]

If it is an S&L it would be great if you could post it in the 57er forum for us to look at there. I wasn't aware that S&L made these post TR and you may find people interested in buying it as part of the post war S&L stock. Not TR sadly, but I agree that it's been very nicely made.

[Mike K.]

Hi Tony,
Can we reasonably identify it as an S&L for sure?
I'd be happy to post it there (if that's where it should be)
Yes, I thought it was good for sure way back when I got it, it looked so nice... but then it being unmarked made me lean toward not good.
So should I repost in the 57 area?
-Mike

If it is an S&L it would be great if you could post it in the 57er forum for us to look at there. I wasn't aware that S&L made these post TR and you may find people interested in buying it as part of the post war S&L stock. Not TR sadly, but I agree that it's been very nicely made.

[Tony T-S]

I know little about these, but the guys there would be able to tell you straight up. Tom seems to think so, so I'd post it there for people to give you a clear answer about it.

[Mike K.]

Ok, posted at '57!
thanks again for your input )

I know little about these, but the guys there would be able to tell you straight up. Tom seems to think so, so I'd post it there for people to give you a clear answer about it.

[Legion Condor]

Hello collectors,

on request of a few forum members, I would like to use this post here for the went into a nice Talkshow about my opinion on S & L stamp and originality.

The piece shown has nothing to do with S & L, not even with a post-war piece. This is a pure fantasy piece. The inventor was a fun bird what one can indeed look good at the funny birds. What are reminiscent of S & L Spain crosses the sword handles, but nothing else. In post-war pieces of S & L to see the Eagles to a small embossing error exactly like the original S & L Adler. The swords are the same, the tools are only getting worse. Very easy to see on the sword handles.

Yes you heard right, the tools are still used, or were there until recently.

And I am of the opinion that I can prove it with facts. I also collect for about 10 years, copies of Spain crosses. In the course of time, the story has concluded to the S & L Spanienkruze for me.

I have S & L experienced the the tools after the war by a ehmaligen owner of the company was taken away from the factory. So they told me that through the flowers. But where they are today, no one can say more.

I have a few pieces where I want to share my experience with S & L Spanienkreze with you and discuss if you want.

I present these 4 pieces little by little, and show pictures to it. There are four pieces, because I want to describe it. Load only show me the four pieces one by one before you respond, thus the Reihenvolge remains sorted.
I need some time because it is not a little work.

I hope you can understand my bad english.

I call it:

1. Serie Original
2. Serie Kopie
3. Serie Kopie
4. Serie Kopie

Gruß Hansgünter

[Legion Condor]

1. Serie Original

The piece shown here is in my opinion an original from the period 1939-45.
These pieces with swords and without occur in 100% secured Orner original documents. Others I have not seen S & L until now.

This piece has a 4 (PKZ) and L/16 (LDO), I know now shout a few people on, especially Dietrich. But this needle system is also used in the S & L EK1 just before and also in the Deumer Spain crosses, because only with the L/11 stamp. I Remind to the delivery of German religious

Why this needle is stamped with 4 and L/16 might be never be able to find. But not everything must always be secured with a piece of paper 100%. Sometimes there is simply no logical explanation.

Perhaps the needle was fitted by an external supplier yet with the 4 and L/16 and then delivered to S & L. And with L/11 to Deumer. Is only as an opinion of me. We could always superior, and it would certainly come up with a few stories yet. But that's also only times not so important. let us first forget the 4 and L/16.

1 Original Series

Please look at the cross good!

Greeting Hans Günter

[Legion Condor]

2. Serie Kopie

The piece is in my opinion a piece from the year 1946 - 1950
This piece will still be sold as original from the period of 1939-45.

These pieces have the original owner bought with a lot of security after the war and their crosses replaced the lost in captivity. Or soldiers as suvenier.

(Fun: Did that bought from you also one in Germany)

I was in the piece not sure if it is original until recently, now I think that it is not original.

Why?

Not cut out 1 swastikas
2 different needle
3 different color
4 different surface
5 stamp no longer the 4 times she was
6 hinge stands now, no more lies
7 needle hook is jetz thinner

I think good at recognizing the piece down to the needle all the original parts were taken from the first piece. Only the quality was not as good. There were yet old residual stock in my opinion.
8 Important: Adler has over the head of a stamping error. This point has told me in later times there's something wrong. They are just as later understand why this issue is so important. You only have the condensed version of it.

So now I'm est again pictures of this cross, to the same!

[Legion Condor]

3. Serie Kopie

his silver was purchased in the early 1955 as a replacement piece. This source is also Faces by a much valued collectors in Germany and I do not doubt 1% of his words.

One can see that it comes from the S & L Tool in the piece on the first look. Only the tool was a bit worse.

I am of the opinion that the piece was produced until 1975 so. Why? They see the next piece of No. 4

Here then is a modern needle system was taken as it was typical in the period of 1955-60 to 1965 in Germany. The needle hook makes now even better impressively as before, see potentially hazardous for the collector the piece.

The tool is a bit to old and the quality of the silver is not as beautiful as in pieces until 1945.

Important: Please look at the eagle's head, it explains a bit more again my opinion.

To make pictures again, small moment please!

[IMG][/IMG]

[Legion Condor]

So and now row the last piece of the. Bronze with swords and L/16 stamped on the needle. These pieces appear since 1980 and brought up in a very small now pay the man. Time as a copy and time as the original. The source is not known. This piece is not dangerous for the collectors I think.

But what we see again? A piece of what was built on the Wekzeug of S & L. The needle and hinge piece as the No. 3 Only the needle hook is now very bad. Also the color Prägund the sword handles and the surface again even worse than the No. 3
The stamp is not the same as the piece No. 1

Important: We see again the embossing error above the eagle's head.

Greeting Hans Günter