KCs by Klein & Quenzer

[Dietrich Maerz]

The only original K&Q crosses are those with round corners...
Pieter.

Pieter, these well founded, experienced, advanced and unsarcastic remarks are what makes your input in every discussion you decide to take part so valuable .

I'm really glad we have you here to learn from you. A big Thanks!

Dietrich

[Pieter Verbruggen]

Pieter, these well founded, experienced, advanced and unsarcastic remarks are what makes your input in every discussion you decide to take part so valuable .

I'm really glad we have you here to learn from you. A big Thanks!

Dietrich

Sad to see that you take everything so serious. If you have such problems with these well founded, experienced and advanced SARCASTIC remarks, yust tell me to shut up...perhaps that's what I better would do and view the forum like the dozens really "BIG" guy's are doiing, in silent mode.....you should know...
Pieter, your turn now

[Dietrich Maerz]

Pieter,

please do not shut up because I and a lot of others value your opinion highly, and I mean it really! When you post more than a 3-4 word long reply with substance it is always a pleasure to take your point of view, doubtless knowledge and experience and build on it.

Here is why I'm not pleased with some of your sarcastic remarks:

You have a name and a stance in the community, you are a hell of a collector and everybody knows that. This is why people who might not have the luxury of thinking on their own or building knowledge in a slow and painfull process over the ears (as you for sure did), just take some of your sarcastic, unfounded and maybe even just funny remarks as gospels and truth. That's what I do not like. You play with the preception people have of you. This comes with a great responsibiliy since people rely on you. All I'm asking is that you should not play with that resonsibility lightly.

I fully respect your OPINION that the Rounders are not real, but - for the sake of leaving the door open for further investigation and findings - do not shut the door by using your stature to ridicule the subject and make everybody of your (sometimes brainless) followers (which you did not select), brabble things like "Pieter said it's fake so it must be".

I don't think that you like that either. It's about truth and responsibility. What is so hard with saying " I don't know, but at this point in time I think they are not genuine". I fully support and respect this your opinion. As, I know, you understand my position.

Dietrich

[Dietrich Maerz]

Ludwig,


I'm sorry that I have hijacked you thread with my remark that lead to this little intermezzo.

Your point is a very valid one and if I may expand it a little bit to the full field of this question. We are so proud about our knowledge that we seem to forget how long it took and how many countless people were working on this process to investigate and to collect to the point were we are now.

Here is a perfect exampel:

"... maker marks are very rarely found, if, then mostly L/12... the silver loop is nearly all the time marked 900..
"All grades of the RK have a soldered-on ring on the top of the frame ..."

This is from the book "Deutsche Auszeichnungen" from Dr. K.-G. Klietmann!!!. Issue 1971. Special Thanks is made to Littlejohn and some Germans, which I assume to be knowledgable people at that point in time (Wehlisch und Schmunzler)

It is absolutely clear that Dr. Klietmann, the director of the "Institut für wissentschaftliche Ordenskunde" in Berlin was compiling this book to the best of his knowledge. Relying on this, one would not buy a K&Q or a "4" marked cross...That was 1971!!

So who are we to know declare that we are absolutely on top of everything, know everything and nothing new will be discovered? Who are we to ridicule the early investigators for their limited knowledge? The same will happen to us and sometimes it happens once a week, if you look closely!

Sounds like the pope saying the earth is flat or the atom cannot be splitt!

We must be proud of what we know know, but we also must acknowledge that we by far do not know everything and that the search goes on and on.

Dietrich

[Brian S]

Ralph A I'll take that fake off your hands, please.

[Ludwig]

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As I said, all you funny people, I know that it´s BS.
I know K & Q KCs were produced and awarded during the war.

But if the wellknown German dealer – even if he has come up with other strange theories/informations earlier – is right about the tools being in US hands?

That was the point, to check if there was SOMETHING correct behind the rumour. Where are the K & Q RK tools? Imagine it comes to your knowledge they are in the hands of some dishonest person. Then there will be "ganz viele Hosenscheisser" among you!

[George Stimson]

If you really want to see some Hosenscheisser, ask: Where are all of the tools for all Third Reich awards?

[Ludwig]

-

Good point, BUT a KC is a little bit more expensive than an IC. For example.

[George Stimson]

True enough, I guess -- unless you buy more than one!

[Blitz]

Everything we collect are fakes. Nothing is original. Its a huge conspiracy. Every cross, badge, belt, dagger, helmet, uniform and hat was made just a few years ago. Nothing before 1945.


Peter

I never knew.. Damn. I just realised that i have lost alot of money on nothing but fakes. Mentally, i will never recover from this. I've been living in a lie.
Could you just excuse me for a second, I'll go and hang myself with a fake kc ribbon.

[Gerd Becker]

I never knew.. Damn. I just realised that i have lost alot of money on nothing but fakes. Mentally, i will never recover from this. I've been living in a lie.
Could you just excuse me for a second, I'll go and hang myself with a fake kc ribbon.

LOL

[Brian S]

As I said, all you funny people, I know that it´s BS.
I know K & Q KCs were produced and awarded during the war.

But if the wellknown German dealer – even if he has come up with other strange theories/informations earlier – is right about the tools being in US hands?

That was the point, to check if there was SOMETHING correct behind the rumour. Where are the K & Q RK tools? Imagine it comes to your knowledge they are in the hands of some dishonest person. Then there will be "ganz viele Hosenscheisser" among you!

Even if someone in the 'hood had the tools. He wouldn't be able to crank out effective RK's without cracking the die. Couldn't paint and finish without messing it all up.

[Sebastian Bianchi]

Not to take sides here, but the question was rather ridiculous - so fitting of Pieter's ridiculous answer! Such questions don't even really deserve an answer, they are a waste of time. In fact this post belongs in Die Kniepe, not here.

[Ludwig]

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That´s a very strange comment by an "objective" moderator.
Read my post again – carefully! I said I thought it was just bull****, but could there be ANY truth in it AT ALL? That fakes are made with the original tools in the USA?
I know that my English isn´t perfect, but you can at least TRY to understand what I mean.
What´s the point insulting people every time a "ridiculous" question turns up? I could spend hours every day insulting people here, if that was the case...

[Sebastian Bianchi]

Here's your original post;

Has anyone here heard the rumour that ALL K & Q Knight´s Crosses are fake?
That they never produced the KC?
That they are produced by a person in the USA?

Personally I think it´s just BS. I have seen several K & Q KCs still in the possession of the original holder, but it would be interesting to learn more about this rumour.

The rumor/statement says "all", and it isn't just BS, it is ridiculous! So much so that I would have shocked if some good ribbing and fun-poking didn’t emerge.

Ludwig, there are a lot of these things making the rounds in less-than-credible places. Most of them are a personal vendetta against one person or another, and are so obviously fictitious that they are not given a second though. This one certainly should be filed under that category.

If you want talk about it, feel free. You want to learn about the rumor? No problem, but such preposterous statements are put forth, you have to expect some sarcastic remarks.