Eduard Gorlach & Sohne ek1?

[Henri S]

Here is a question about the 51 marked ek1 that has been bothering me for some time. 51 is the mark for Eduard Gorlach & Sohne. Did they ever manufacture ek1s? Searching the threads here 51 is marked as a fake, but only found pictures of screwbacks. And I have never found any reference of 51 ek1s in any book. The pin looks similar to the early ek1s or WW1 ek1s ( roundish and long).

I might be asking a silly question here, but could this maker be an early one that produced crosses in the early days? I have seen several of these crosses and always assosiated them to a fake. Is it because he is not listed in research books? Is it due to some quality lack common in fakes?

I am also putting in some photos. Quality does not look so bad either.

[Henri S]

reverse.

[Henri S]

the 51 mm

[Jim Baker]

Henri,

I've never heard of these, but I agree, it's not a particularly bad looking cross. It also doesn't look like the fakes I've been exposed to.

Wait for George to dig through his barrel of examples. I'm sure he'll have something for you.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Bugibbian,

so far the maker "51" is not known as a valid one and this is definetely a first, if it's a real one.

Would you have any idea what the reverse inner frame corners show? Looks like burn marks to me.

Anyway, we should wait for Geoge's final call on this one, as Panzermann advises so nicely....

Dietrich

[Henri S]

Here is another photo of the reverse of another example. I assume that the black stuff on the one above is dirt / patina

[Dietrich Maerz]

Buggibbian,

now we have two.

It can't be an early one because the PKZ was introduced late in the war. And there cannot (should not) be a real screwback marked "51" since screwbacks were never given to the PKZ and - since only allowed for private purchase - should be marked with an L-number, as you know.

What about the burn marks?

Dietrich

[Mike Kenny]

Hi,

The hinge/pin/catch assembly on these crosses, particularly the first cross, looks like the same as found on the incorrect incuse relief "20" marked repros - they can also come with 1914 cores. What are the measurements and are they 3-piece? From what I can see, sorry, but personally I wouldn't touch either of them.

Regards
Mike K

[Henri S]

Hi Dietrich,

Yes you're right. I will try to see if I can get in contact with the seller of the black or burnt back. I thought it was patina. Both these eks were offered to me, but I never purchased, as I always assumed them to be fakes. But I always questioned if they are in fact fakes or not, and it's what made me start this thread.

Henri

Buggibbian,

now we have two.

It can't be an early one because the PKZ was introduced late in the war. And there cannot (should not) be a real screwback marked "51" since screwbacks were never given to the PKZ and - since only allowed for private purchase - should be marked with an L-number, as you know.

What about the burn marks?

Dietrich

[Henri S]

Hmm, interesting. I have emailed one of the sellers for the measurements. I was told that they are 3 piece contruction. I will update the thread with any news.

Hi,

The hinge/pin/catch assembly on these crosses, particularly the first cross, looks like the same as found on the incorrect incuse relief "20" marked repros - they can also come with 1914 cores. What are the measurements and are they 3-piece? From what I can see, sorry, but personally I wouldn't touch either of them.

Regards
Mike K

[Peter Wiking]

I have this one in my fake folder.

Cheers.
Peter

[Peter Wiking]

Front

[George Stimson]

I'm afraid I can't shed any light on these, but the comparison between the "51s" and the "20" Peter posted is most discouraging.

[Henri S]

Thanks everybody, that clarrifies all my doubts. Looking at the 51 marked and the one Peter posted, I can see the resemblance. Thought I can count on you guys to trash this out of the way.