L/58 "800" marked Souval Grand Cross

[Alex W.]

Got no idea where the affection on the backside comes from, but I do not want to clean it.

Hope you like it!

Matt

Another nice Souval GK, thanks for showing.

I'll try to get some group pics of my Souval Grand Cross series done

[Alex W.]

Here is another one. This is probably the oldest one I know of. It's completely unmarked and features an unmagnetic (zink?) core instead of the usual magnetic iron core. I received it together with a super early RK with OLS without any frame errors (also with an unmagnetic core). Very hard to say how old these pieces really are, but supposably they were brought back by a British veteran who was in Vienna in 1946.

Best regards,
Alex

[Tom B]

Very nice, would love to own one...but...to much $$$ for me. Tom

[JAndrew]

Am I missing something here? These are fakes folks. I got a couple back in the 60's for $25 each and sold one a couple years ago. They are fakes that come in fake cases. It worries me when threads featuring fakes start using terms like "textbook" and "rare" to describe FAKES! Maybe we should start a new forum here where people can show case their favorite fake items in their collections.
Rant over. Ready to take my licks.
JAndrew

[Alex W.]

Am I missing something here? These are fakes folks. I got a couple back in the 60's for $25 each and sold one a couple years ago. They are fakes that come in fake cases. It worries me when threads featuring fakes start using terms like "textbook" and "rare" to describe FAKES! Maybe we should start a new forum here where people can show case their favorite fake items in their collections.
Rant over. Ready to take my licks.
JAndrew

Well I really don't want to turn this nice and interesting thread into a debate on principales but if you say that Souvals are "fakes" I say your totally on the wrong track.

A fake is something made with the intention to deceive. The Souval company never made any of their products with the intention to deceive anyone. They made their products for veterans and collectors. Like it or not, these pieces have their own collectors market these days.
Not everybody wants/can spend that much money for textbook pre 1945 items either. I'm sure a lot of collectors just use Souval products as fillers for items they can't afford or which simply are not available. As far as I'm concerned I could afford higher end third reich items, I actually burn considerably more money on other hobbies I have than on third reich militaria. Never the less I find it very entertaining to collect all of their products, even the very cheap ones like a KVK 2nd class etc. (no worries though,I also have quite a few "original" third reich medals too)
So why do I collect Souvals ? I simply find the comany, their products and their (post war) history very interesting.
Do other collectors think this is stupid ? Most probably think so but I honestly could care less. I'm sure a lot of the "57'ers" collectors get looked down too for collecting postwar crap made up until the late 1990's. But hey,it's all about live and let live.
Never the less I'd appreciate a seperate section of the board for Souval post war medals. That way the purists also wouldn't get bothered the these evil fakes.
It's a part of post war history, just like those 1957ers are.

Cheers,
Alex

[August von Mackensen]

almost looks like somebody tried to polish or clean the silver frame with a solvent at one time.

William Kramer

Possible, maybe I´ll try to clean it with a smooth gunoil or so, but of course carefully.7

Alex, yours is also a textbook sample

Textbook and very rare

Matt

[Seewolf]

Well I really don't want to turn this nice and interesting thread into a debate on principales but if you say that Souvals are "fakes" I say your totally on the wrong track.

A fake is something made with the intention to deceive. The Souval company never made any of their products with the intention to deceive anyone. They made their products for veterans and collectors. Like it or not, these pieces have their own collectors market these days.
Not everybody wants/can spend that much money for textbook pre 1945 items either. I'm sure a lot of collectors just use Souval products as fillers for items they can't afford or which simply are not available. As far as I'm concerned I could afford higher end third reich items, I actually burn considerably more money on other hobbies I have than on third reich militaria. Never the less I find it very entertaining to collect all of their products, even the very cheap ones like a KVK 2nd class etc. (no worries though,I also have quite a few "original" third reich medals too)
So why do I collect Souvals ? I simply find the comany, their products and their (post war) history very interesting.
Do other collectors think this is stupid ? Most probably think so but I honestly could care less. I'm sure a lot of the "57'ers" collectors get looked down too for collecting postwar crap made up until the late 1990's. But hey,it's all about live and let live.
Never the less I'd appreciate a seperate section of the board for Souval post war medals. That way the purists also wouldn't get bothered the these evil fakes.
It's a part of post war history, just like those 1957ers are.

Cheers,
Alex

Well spoken, Alex

Souvals have their own collecting field, same with the 57ers. We, who collect these, are happy with our section and spend much time and investigation to find out more about these. They are harder to find than "simple" TR pieces and still have a real history.

And guys, don´t forget that postwar B-frame RK´s with swaz from S&L are well paid by now ....... about 1000$ for a "fake"

[Matthieu]

Well I really don't want to turn this nice and interesting thread into a debate on principales but if you say that Souvals are "fakes" I say your totally on the wrong track.

A fake is something made with the intention to deceive. The Souval company never made any of their products with the intention to deceive anyone. They made their products for veterans and collectors. Like it or not, these pieces have their own collectors market these days.
Not everybody wants/can spend that much money for textbook pre 1945 items either. I'm sure a lot of collectors just use Souval products as fillers for items they can't afford or which simply are not available. As far as I'm concerned I could afford higher end third reich items, I actually burn considerably more money on other hobbies I have than on third reich militaria. Never the less I find it very entertaining to collect all of their products, even the very cheap ones like a KVK 2nd class etc. (no worries though,I also have quite a few "original" third reich medals too)
So why do I collect Souvals ? I simply find the comany, their products and their (post war) history very interesting.
Do other collectors think this is stupid ? Most probably think so but I honestly could care less. I'm sure a lot of the "57'ers" collectors get looked down too for collecting postwar crap made up until the late 1990's. But hey,it's all about live and let live.
Never the less I'd appreciate a seperate section of the board for Souval post war medals. That way the purists also wouldn't get bothered the these evil fakes.
It's a part of post war history, just like those 1957ers are.

Cheers,
Alex

Hear hear .... there are plenty of collectors ( myself included ) whom do have a weak spot for these Souval badges.
Early postwar, very good quality and a nice variety of badges out there. Also Souval plays an important role in the postwar and 1957 period badges.

For those reasons I'm quite fond of Souval pieces and do collect them

Mathijs

[streptile]

Am I missing something here? These are fakes folks. They are fakes that come in fake cases.

I agree with you, but surely there's something to be gained from others studying them? Anything that furthers our knowledge...

I think it's pretty clear here that these are being discussed as fakes.

[jonathancol]

The Souvals may not be authentic pieces, but I think that they have definite collectability as well.

[speedytop]

Yes, as not originals.

Or, as we say in Germany, Kopien (copies).

Uwe

[Seewolf]

No one is denying that these are copies, fakes.

But these are the best copies you can get and made by a TR producer who still made pieces between 1939 - 1945. Same as with the postwar B-frame RK´s from S&L. You´ll always find a buyer who will be very happy with these

As fillers or part of the makers history they are IMO all very collectable.

To live and let live ....... why can´t we just be accepted as serious collectors, too

[AlikN]

Here I have one of those "textbook" fakes too, ...and my example is worn ....................................... by me ........... on Halloween ......

[Thomas Durante]

I agree with you, but surely there's something to be gained from others studying them? Anything that furthers our knowledge...

I think it's pretty clear here that these are being discussed as fakes.

I can only agree, these are all postwar reproductions. I am not sure how clear it is though, especially to collectors who may not be as familiar with crosses as some who have posted in this thread since it is not until post #34 that the word "postwar" or "reproduction" or "fake" has been mentioned.

Tom

[Tony T-S]

Lets be honest here. There is only one that's absolutely definitely not a fake (as seen in the photos) and there are only a few others we would class originals, but were never awarded. Then there are these. Only a few collectors have even had the chance to buy the pre 45 versions and only a few more will get the chance when these owners die.

So, these ARE the next best thing to an original if you want an example for the collection. I know, I own a crappy undersize one piece ioffer version. I can't afford the price everyone wants, but if any of you who have one sitting in your trash draw want to sell me one of these for say $100-$200, (they are junk after all), I'll grab it now. Yes I'm serious, I'll grab it now.

I think these are a great item and I would love to own one. Of course they're not original, but there are only a few of those that even exist, and there's only one that was actually given. I don't think anyone bothered to mention that these are fakes because it would just be assumed that this is common knowledge.

Silly rant over. Lets just keep enjoying the thread.