Billy Kramer

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Opinion on the controversial piece?

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    Opinion on the controversial piece?

    Hi guys,

    what is the overall opinion on this particular piece.

    http://www.butschek-antiques.com/TRA...1st-Class.html

    Cheers

    Pete

    #2
    I don't know what to make of that piece, and I have one.
    Best regards,
    Streptile

    Looking for ROUND BUTTON 1939 EK1 Spange cases (LDO or PKZ)

    Comment


      #3
      I'm still convinced that it's post-war since it also comes with a different pin (if I recall well) and an L/15 mark

      It just lacks the quality of a wartime-piece.

      Comment


        #4
        I cant comment on the pin as im not sure enough but Ben is certainly correct on the quality not being that of a war time example!

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by ben bijker View Post
          I'm still convinced that it's post-war since it also comes with a different pin (if I recall well) and an L/15 mark
          It just lacks the quality of a wartime-piece.
          Hi Ben,

          Actually the one that comes with the different pin and L15 mark is a totally different type. I think 5tefan did some comparison with the two types but I can't find it. Anyway I'm not saying this one is good -- I doubt it -- but I don't think it comes with any marks or variant pins.
          Best regards,
          Streptile

          Looking for ROUND BUTTON 1939 EK1 Spange cases (LDO or PKZ)

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by ben bijker View Post
            I'm still convinced that it's post-war since it also comes with a different pin (if I recall well) and an L/15 mark

            It just lacks the quality of a wartime-piece.

            Agree!

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by streptile View Post
              Hi Ben,

              Actually the one that comes with the different pin and L15 mark is a totally different type. I think 5tefan did some comparison with the two types but I can't find it. Anyway I'm not saying this one is good -- I doubt it -- but I don't think it comes with any marks or variant pins.
              Hi Trev,

              I can't find the "other" example, but I am sure that someone showed one of these, marked L/15 (orL15) a while ago, for sale at a german dealer.

              One-piece (fake) with very round corners and a pebbled core.
              Pretty sure it was the same cross
              The pin was the Floch-type if I recall well.

              Comment


                #8
                Pics
                Attached Files

                Comment


                  #9
                  Well, at least it is offered as a controversial piece, and priced accordingly

                  So it's up to the buyer

                  Comment


                    #10
                    http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ighlight=piece

                    there are some minute differences, but it's basically the same design....

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Thank you for the replies guys. I read through the other thread in regards to this style of cross and like the guys there it has me a tad stumped too. Will keep reading and researching on this particular cross.

                      I don't plan on buying it but just when I saw it on butschek I got very curious.

                      Regards

                      Pete

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I had the ek2 here, and I didn't like it one bit.
                        If you have it in hand and the gut-feeling still says: no, it has to go......

                        I have to admit that I am wrong from time to time, but that doesn't happen often....

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by ben bijker View Post
                          Well, at least it is offered as a controversial piece, and priced accordingly

                          So it's up to the buyer
                          Really,

                          So you can list something dodgy and say its ok its up to you but I'm not sure?

                          If you list it in your page then you should be sure and have an opinion?

                          I think this should be tagged onto the KB love thread on the community forum.

                          Its right or its wrong, I don't understand 'priced accordingly'!

                          Priced accordingly for a bent item is what, €2.3 .4 maybe 5 tops?

                          Come on people, smell the coffee.

                          It's running out/was never there!

                          Jock

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Most of the items he has on auction are fakes or bad condition. But they are also described as that. So I really can't see the problem. All with low opening bids and noone is forcing you to buy.

                            On the other hand, i think it's bad for business to mix copies with original items.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Hmm, I don;t really see the problem.
                              Some items are controversial, and get a lot of different opinions.

                              Some collectors call good stuff fake, and some keep defending bad stuff.
                              No one is forcing you to buy, but at least the item is not described as authentic

                              If it was that easy (it's right or it's wrong) fakers wouldn't stand a chance because every item has to be "textbook".
                              But if you collect like that, you will miss out on a lot of nice items.
                              If I had collected that way I would have had about half the crosses I have in my collection.

                              This item is offered as-is, an ek that gets a lot of different opinions.
                              You can't put all responsibility at the sellers end, the buyer has some responsibility as well.
                              Can you prove this cross is fake, Jock?
                              I don't think so
                              I can't prove it is fake, it's just my gut-feeling.
                              The seller could also have offered it as a rare, one-piece, authentic cross for
                              400 E, but since he's not sure he offers it for 40 E, which is 10%


                              That is the reason I don't have a problem with this particular cross and the way it is offered.


                              I do however agree with Daniel that too many fakes may harm your business.
                              But there are many, many more dealers that operate that way, so always be careful what you buy

                              Comment

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