Putting Juncker cores to the test...

[Robert P.]

An interesting observation revisited today on my Juncker-cored Juncker crosses - the core is convex both from the center of the core to the end of each arm, and, is also convex 90 degrees off of this length. To really see this one needs to lay a straight piece of paper on the core in front of a good light source. You'll see light coming from under both ends of the paper while the paper is resting on the core. I am aware that Juncker used W&L cores in their crosses, but have found that these cores are perfectly flat, no convex shape to them.

Here's a photo of a non-vaulted Juncker with the 1st pattern core showing the convex core shape...

Robert

[Tony T-S]

You can see it very clearly in the shot. Very interesting.

[Douglas 5]

Interesting observation indeed Robert - you brought up some years ago for the first time and I have been keeping an eye out for and have done further study on .
Normally a very hard or even impossible to see feature in straight on pictures . This feature is a rare one and a surprize 'bonus' when one gets a cross with this kind of core .
A picture you posted originally demonstrating the convex or ' vaulted core" . These can be found on EK1s and EK2s ! ... using various core materials and core die types .
The one you had appears to have a S&L core - struck on Zink - on that one in the picture below .
Juncker crosses have so many misteries - this being one of them !
The question is .... Convex cores --> an exclusive Juncker feature or used by other makers ?? Hence the question ...Who made and used this core .
I have not seen any S&L crosses with a convex core . I can only guess S&L made cores for Juncker or supplied the core dies ??
Here is one picture I found , ... there were 2 other back-lit pictures which I can not locate right now .
Amongst Juncker crosses this 'convex' features varies from minor to very pronounced !

Douglas

[Douglas 5]

What Robert's 3 flaw Juncker frame cross front and reverse looked like . One cannot see the convex core feature at this angle !

Douglas

[Robert P.]

Actually, Douglas, the photo(s) you posted here is a 1st pattern zinc Juncker core, not an S&L. I have yet to find an S&L core in any of the Juncker crosses I have owned in the past.

Robert

[Douglas 5]

I disagree on the core here . A core that S&L supplied to others . The wide top 3 is a S&L product .
First 2 marked S&Ls and the core in a F Zimmermann EK2 .

Douglas

[Robert P.]

Draw a line across the bottom of the 1939 in the Juncker zinc core, then look at the S&L. The top of the '1' is different also, among other features.

Robert

[Douglas 5]

Just to mention that there is a 2nd S&L core found in Juncker crosses . This thread is about vaulted cores so I will continue with samples of those .
This convex surface is subtle and only the rare occasion one finds a somewhat more pronounced core vaulting . Note that the glossy paint makes it look more lumpy than it really is ..... this is the exception .

Douglas

[Robert P.]

Douglas,

Notice the height of the 3 and the last 9 in the 1939 dates in the crosses you just posted, especially the right cross. They're the same (very little difference between both of them) as the zinc cored cross you said was an S&L.

Robert

Edit: I meant to say the height of the bottoms of the 3 and the last 9 in the 1939 dates...

Now look at the S&L dates in post #6. The numbers are flat across the bottoms of the S&L's.

[Douglas 5]

Of the last 2 crosses I posted only the left one has a normal core .
The Swas on your zink EK2 has wider arms and all corners touch the frame which is the same on both . The 1 on my EK1 has a short 1 and the Zink date sits lower than on my left EK1 .

Douglas

[Robert P.]

I won't argue any longer with you. If you want to believe the zinc core is an S&L then you have that right. I don't see it as such.

Robert

[Douglas 5]

Sent a message :
Now back to the convex cores . Here is a full Juncker EK2 with this arm feature as the first EK1 . Only the front side shows this and strangely not the reverse .

Douglas

[Robert P.]

Ah, so perhaps this feature was meant exclusively/primarily for the EKI and they used the obverse core for the EKII as well. Mind you, only speculation...

Robert