Do you think it is reasonable to assume that EK (and KVK) cases with the maker's name on the inside of the lid were intended to be paired with awards meant for retail sale (i.e., LDO marked), instead of official award pieces?
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George -
George,
I have a marked Deumer case that came with an L/11.
Regards,
Marc -
IMHO I believe that badge makers paired their cases with their names on them. Having said that, some of the modern collecting/selling community commonly match their own cases with whatever badge they have a need to put in it.
I was looking at an L/11 EK1 and asked the seller what was marked on the inside of the case.....guess what....nothing! No surprise here.
So for me I am very careful not to buy mismatched cases and badges.
All the best.
Dan.
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Yes, but do you think that cross makers ordered the marked cases to be matched with the crosses they manufactured for retail, over-the-counter sales as opposed to those pieces which were going to be officially awarded?GeorgeComment
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Well, I think none of us will know for sure, but if I were an LDO badge maker, I would want to match cases with my badges. A retailer would probably not care one way or the other. So the burden would be upon the maker to sell his marked cases with his badges.
If you are proud of your name and the quality fo your product, I would want them paired. Whether that ever happened at the retail stores I do not know, but would believe the manufacturer would find a way to make that happen.
Since their were factory rep's who visited the retail stores, I would think that notion would be emphasized during the visit.
Best,
Dan
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George,
Logically speaking I see no reason to go to the expense of marking a case for a battlefield award. It seems like something you do at a retail store.
MarcComment
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I agree, when awards were bestowed in the battlefield, often the recipients simply tossed the case and carton. But an individual actively seeking to purchase a spare or replacement over the counter may have a preferrence for one maker over the other, possibly because of that makers reputation for producing finely crafted awards. Therefore it would be in the interest of the maker to stamp their name on the case.Comment
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Okay, so when I get the two empty, but maker marked, cases, I'll put crosses with LDO designations in them rather than ones with Lieferant numbers (my real question
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GeorgeComment
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Me too!Originally posted by Flak88
RoyComment
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Me three!
GeorgeComment
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George,
I guess I would have to ask just how the makers would send the cross bearing the Lieferant numbers into the issuing authority? Were these pieces boxed individually, with case and cardboard cartonage, or were they packaged some how else in mass quantity? Would seem they would be separately boxed IMO, that would include a case.
The issuing authority clearly wouldn't have cared either way who made the particular crosses, but was there any prohibition that would have precluded marked boxes on presentation awards?
Conversly, it would seem logical that a retailer would have cases with the appropriate manufacturer marked on the case (either inside or with the LDO stamp somewhere outside) to advertise the maker's product for selling purposes. It may not have been a quality issue for buyers, but a local manufacturer and availability issue to the area where the soldier is purchasing the piece. Did all manufacturers distribute their (LDO) products all over, or were they more localized?
Looking through my reference books, I can only find one good photograph of an awards table set-up with RKs, DKs, EK,s etc. Of the boxes that I can see, none appear to have maker's lables printed inside. Unfortunately, the EKs and KVKs are not that visible. Perhaps, those collectors that collect period photos can look through their pictures and see "if" there are any circumstances where the cases are marked. Additionally, any piece with an ironclad provenance that is known to be an "issued" award that came with a marked case might tell more here.
Let's not get into the double-mark pieces for now!
My thoughts anyway.
TimComment
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Yes George you could assume that with the upmost confidence.
Some LDO marked items have been noted to have been 'issued' officaly though...like in the event of the soldier (sailor, airman) being deceased. Also it's not just LDO marked items that were sold in the retailors.
Kr
MarcusComment
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Can it also be that the EK´s in those cases was unmarkt? Maybe that´s wy they did print the loggo on the case.
MikaelComment
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Hi,
cases came with full name inside the lid, with LDO number ink stamped (late war time) and were inside unmarked too .
Ivan BombardieriComment
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Hello Ivan!
Yes, I would tend to agree with that line of thought, that the awarded pieces were a mix and match of cases and not something the awarding authority really thought or cared about. It was, afterall, war time and most cases were probably thrown away or given back to the issuing command staff person for reuse. Probably not that many thinking about future collection issues at that point IMO.
I seen this practice quite often while in the military, especially as we moved into the 90's. In the case of personal decorations, often the empty case was given to the member after the award ceremony along with the award document in a presentation folder as well. In the case of service or campaign awards, the member might get the item in an envelope or box (mostly), case (usually only if something like a foreign award), or might just get the medal pinned at quarters and the "container" never seen.
Sometimes a command would receive the actual award document from higher command without a folder and then the issuing command had to piece something together. You could order these presentation folders and empty cases through supply. Towards the end of my career, the admin staff would actively seek out empty cases and folders for resuse if the member didn't already have one. Saved the command money, but still allowed for a presentation of the award. Not sure what always happend back then, but the old saying of "as some things change, some things stay the same".
I guess the point I wanted to bring up on the previous post was are we sure that the manufacturers of these medals/badges/etc. were the same makers of the cases/boxes/envelopes? Did the manufacturer of an EK1 also make the case and then box it up to send out? Or were these items shipped, perhaps in envelopes and then later matched up with cases/boxes at the issuing command. Seem like it would be more logical to have a supplier of cases that catered to different medals/badges made by various manufacturers, than to expect the manufacturer to also be building cases for their award pieces IMO.
Two final thoughts:
Perhaps the "sub-contract" also allowed selling these to the manufacturers for their LDO retail pieces? These were then stamped after the fact prior to a salesman getting them for distribution.
Perhaps that's why see more "issue" envelopes towards the end of the war due to war constraints and lack of money for the little things like presentation cases?
TimComment
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