RK on E-Stand

[Knight_ridergta]

Hello,

I have heard that there were jewelers copies of Iron Crosses and then I have heard that it is a fancy term for a modern copy, anyone have any opinions on this one on E-Stand?

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...65#post6023265

[ValhallaMilitaria]

Without looking at the cross on the estand I can clear up one thing: copies were made in the TR period for wear in combat to protect the original medal from loss or damage in battle. The irony is that many of these 'copies' were of superior quality to the originals...values for these jewelers medals have always been less than the 'real' thing though. I will take a peek at the medal in question and comment on it though I am not an RK 'expert'.
Edit- I doubt a period RK with the added Swords and Oakleaves would ever sell for 750.00.....postwar IMO.
Lets see what some of the others have to say.

[Knight_ridergta]

Thanks for the comment, he claims it does not glow and it is magnetic, hopefully an expert on these will come along and clear it up as it is interesting.

Without looking at the cross on the estand I can clear up one thing: copies were made in the TR period for wear in combat to protect the original medal from loss or damage in battle. The irony is that many of these 'copies' were of superior quality to the originals...values for these jewelers medals have always been less than the 'real' thing though. I will take a peek at the medal in question and comment on it though I am not an RK 'expert'.
Edit- I doubt a period RK with the added Swords and Oakleaves would ever sell for 750.00.....postwar IMO.
Lets see what some of the others have to say.

[Darrell]

Without looking at the cross on the estand I can clear up one thing: copies were made in the TR period for wear in combat to protect the original medal from loss or damage in battle. The irony is that many of these 'copies' were of superior quality to the originals...values for these jewelers medals have always been less than the 'real' thing though. I will take a peek at the medal in question and comment on it though I am not an RK 'expert'.

Who told you that? How would an RK made during Wartime be a copy?

[ValhallaMilitaria]

Thanks for the comment, he claims it does not glow and it is magnetic, hopefully an expert on these will come along and clear it up as it is interesting.

Your are welcome- I too am intrigued to see what we can learn here.

[ValhallaMilitaria]

Who told you that? How would an RK made during Wartime be a copy?

I have read it in many places....many jewelers copies were made and worn while the real issue medal stayed at home....this was not a rule, it was up to the individual recepient to decide what to do with their medal....either wear it, or wear a copy into battle.
I thought everyone knew this....
I also think you are misunderstanding what I am saying Darrell.
Copy does not mean 'fake'

[BobI]

Before the Internet days I would hear of "Jewelers copies". I have never believed any of them, in fact, many of the "800" marked crosses and no 65, 2, 21 or whatever were called "Jeweler copies". I have seen EKIIs that I think were modified for use but I seriously doubt the "jeweler" theory. "If" there are any originals they are far and few!
Best Wishes,
Bob

[Dietrich Maerz]

Without looking at the cross on the estand I can clear up one thing: copies were made in the TR period for wear in combat to protect the original medal from loss or damage in battle. The irony is that many of these 'copies' were of superior quality to the originals...values for these jewelers medals have always been less than the 'real' thing though. I will take a peek at the medal in question and comment on it though I am not an RK 'expert'.
Edit- I doubt a period RK with the added Swords and Oakleaves would ever sell for 750.00.....postwar IMO.
Lets see what some of the others have to say.

It is very interesting to realize that even in 2013 the myth of the " higher quality jeweller copies" is still told to new collectors.

There were no jeweller copies! Never ever! Before October 1941 several compnies could legally produce and sell the RK, after that date only via the PKZ could an awardee request and get another RK. And they were exactly of the same good or bad quality as all the others, namely either a Juncker, a S&L, a Zimmermann, a Godet, a 3/4 ring, a Schickle, or a K&Q.

Dietrich

[Dietrich Maerz]

I have read it in many places....many jewelers copies were made and worn while the real issue medal stayed at home....this was not a rule, it was up to the individual recepient to decide what to do with their medal....either wear it, or wear a copy into battle.
I thought everyone knew this....e'

Sorry, but this is complete BS and was most likely written 'in many places' by dealers who wanted to sell whatever fake as a "jeweller'scopy". This is proven to be wrong by extensive original documentation ( albeit in German language ...).

I can only suggest to read in the correct places ....

Dietrich

[Knight_ridergta]

Thanks everyone for clearing that up

[ValhallaMilitaria]

Interesting....there are many dealer sites still writing that up and its still something I come across in books form the mid 90's or before.
So any purported 'jewelers' copy is a postwar fake?
Thanks for the learning curve....just goes to show that a little 'knowledge' can get one in trouble.

[ValhallaMilitaria]

Before the Internet days I would hear of "Jewelers copies". I have never believed any of them, in fact, many of the "800" marked crosses and no 65, 2, 21 or whatever were called "Jeweler copies". I have seen EKIIs that I think were modified for use but I seriously doubt the "jeweler" theory. "If" there are any originals they are far and few!
Best Wishes,
Bob

And if there were/are....how would one authenticate them? I have to admit- I am a bit taken aback....the whole jewelers copy thing is something I have read about, heard about and seen on dealer sites for over 20 years.....geez.
My apologies to all.
Next time I will remember what a role model told me years ago "its better to keep ones mouth shut and have people think you a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"
Eric

[Knight_ridergta]

I guess hearing something from a German vet would be a solid answer

And if there were/are....how would one authenticate them? I have to admit- I am a bit taken aback....the whole jewelers copy thing is something I have read about, heard about and seen on dealer sites for over 20 years.....geez.
My apologies to all.
Next time I will remember what a role model told me years ago "its better to keep ones mouth shut and have people think you a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"
Eric

[robs]

Would a jewellers copy would be more expensive than the real thing in ww2?

I wonder what was the price paid by the Wermacht for an RK to be manufactured? If cheap I guess then replacements seem logical?

[ValhallaMilitaria]

I guess hearing something from a German vet would be a solid answer

Yes, I am wracking my brain trying to recall which book(s) I read that in....what really blows my mind here is just how sure I was that I was certain.
I do still wonder though about this cross on the estand....I guess its postwar then.
Sometimes this hobby just isn't any fun.