Spanish Cross Otto Schickle Int'l Medal Collect Article

[Brian S]

Was eagerly reading the Spanish Cross articles edited/written by George, et al.

I have a few questions about the Otto Schickle Spanish Cross.

I've searched the forum and found a few L/15 marked crosses which suggests the crosses were sold after the LDO rules and before Otto was forced out of business.

What I could not find on the forum was an Otto Schickle stamped SC. And, the article did not indicate thoughts on manufacture and award if an OS cross was unmarked. Any reason why an OS could not have been an awarded piece if unmarked?

LDO: March 1941
SC Awards: 6/1939

[Brian S]

Here's a beautiful gold example but marked L/15: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ross+schickle\

Beautiful example Silver, also L/15; http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...cross+schickle

L/15 discussion started by Dietrich (long story short L/15 is indeed OS); http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...cross+schickle


Bronze marked L/15; http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...cross+schickle

So anyone know of an unmarked Schickle? Opinions on dates?

[jacques]

Brian,
I have to check my files but I'm pretty sure that it is possible to find an SC unmarked with OS provenience.
For sure OS started to produced SC early as 1940 because in their 1940 catalog, the SC is presented. This is the reason why IMO it is possible to find unmarked OS spanish crosses, even it is not common.
I don't think they were awarded pieces. I guess they started a bit later after summer 1939.
The fact that OS sold its stocklate 1941 to other manufacture made that their products were also stamped with other marks (L/18, L/21, and L/52).
Just my two cents.
jacques

[Brian S]

That's good. It was the when they started that is my question. Hard to tell by photos but I probably don't have near the files you do

I am still wondering about the possibilities of them being awarded. June 1939 to after summer 1939 is a pretty tight timeline.

Or was it because of the Jewish background I thought I had read none of his items were "awarded"?

[Scott C.]

I am still wondering about the possibilities of them being awarded. June 1939 to after summer 1939 is a pretty tight timeline.

I thought I read somewhere that a few Spansih Crosses were awarded as late as 1941 due to processing delays, record mix-ups, petitions, etc.

[Brian S]

I thought I read somewhere that a few Spansih Crosses were awarded as late as 1941 due to processing delays, record mix-ups, petitions, etc.

Read that too. Was it the Marseille biography a passage about another pilot?

Here are some Otto Shickle photos of an unmarked OS. Finishing is very meticulous. No MM. Pre-LDO. OS items post-LDO were very much marked in my opinion.

[Scott C.]

Nice cross. Unfortunately I don't recall where I read it -- I'll have to check my references.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Or was it because of the Jewish background I thought I had read none of his items were "awarded"?

That is a very unfounded "theory" that was put forward by the administrator of a small forum without any background documents or factual checking. It was and is also completely wrong. Furthermore, Schickle Knights Crosses were awarded.

[Brian S]

That is a very unfounded "theory" that was put forward by the administrator of a small forum without any background documents or factual checking. It was and is also completely wrong. Furthermore, Schickle Knights Crosses were awarded.

I knew that was a "forum" fact, repeated here long ago, and not something from a perhaps more reliable book. No one prospers by making up stories. Then why forced out of business?

Awarded Schickle RKs, LDO. Yes. And although I tend to agree Juncker made at the very least MOST of all the SC's awarded in June of 1939, it is entirely possible Schickle and Meybauer were also there in some number.

I have tried to figure out the award ceremonies for the non-diamonds SC's. Were they regional? I haven't seen a photo of the entire lot of recipients all in one locale receiving their crosses.

So were the southern Germany recipients given Pforzheim OS crosses? Geographically Luedenscheid provide their Deumer crosses to the west? And Juncker to the majority of Germany centering on Berlin?

You show the December 19, 1939 lineup of EK2 manufacturers includes OS. It seems likely they were in another form of a "lineup" of 6/6/1939 for the SC. Although as I understand it the PKZ was still months away from formal inception as of 6/1939.

So how would word have flowed that approx. 18 thousand SC's were needed around 6/6/1939? Through the Uniformen Markt? Telegram from Funk?

Did Walther Funk simply put in the order to a single or few companies as he was Reich Minister of Economics (Reichswirtschaftsminister) beginning in February 1938 and the office of orders and medals.

Confusing time prior to September 1939...

[Andreas Klein]

Hi Brian,

Schickle was not forced out of business ... the firm lost only his licence to produce awards. They were still active as normal metal working firm until 1946.

The SC was awarded in Döberitz before the official welcome of the Legion Condor in Berlin but i can't say who delivered the crosses therefore.

[jacques]

The Spanish crosses were awarded during different ceremonies.
- Few diamonds crosses and gold crosses were awarded in Hamburg on May 31th by Göring
- Crosses were awarded to the Army members by von Brauchitsch on June 3rd in Döberitz
- By Göring and Raeder to Lw and KM members on June 4th in döberitz

These leaders awarded just few crosses to selected awardees, most of the crosses were distributed directly by the Coy commanders to their soldiers in the tents camp of Döberitz.

Godet, Juncker, Meybauer and Deumer were among the very few ones who produced crosses for these ceremonies.

[adren]

Here is also double marked silver Schickle cross, pretty uncommon version to find:

[adren]

123

[Brian S]

The article mentioned stock of Schickle being sold off. So L/21 Forster & Barth, Pforzheim bought already stamped L/15 crosses. Interesting. Great find, thanks for sharing.

Jacques, have you seen a catalog with a Godet Spanish Cross? I can't find one that is marked as such. I know several crosses unmarked have a "thumbs up", but how can we definitively attribute to Godet?

There is an "interesting" cross here that's been called Godet, the gold example;

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...+spanish+cross

[Brian S]

Would you expect the Godet leser grades to exhibit this reverse?

And the obverse to have these characteristics, from the same die?