KC Group on the way

[StefanK.]

Ahhhhh, ummmmm. I'd better 'fess up. That was probably me! My German is non-existent.

No problem, we are all here to learn. If you pronounce the name like "Fux" (simlar like the english fox which would be the translation of the german name "Fuchs") you almost got it. The Marzluf grouping is really very nice and resembles very clearly the career of a very brave soldier....

Many greetings,
Stefan

[kiwitedferny]

No problem, we are all here to learn. If you pronounce the name like "Fux" (simlar like the english fox which would be the translation of the german name "Fuchs") you almost got it. The Marzluf grouping is really very nice and resembles very clearly the career of a very brave soldier....

Many greetings,
Stefan

Thanks Stefan. That will save me some (more) embarrassment in future.
The man was clearly an excellent officer and brave man. The German Officer Corps was peerless. It's a great pity he was killed.

[Ludwig]

Looks very nice! Hope you will post some more photos later!?

[kiwitedferny]

Nice badges but i don't this it's a group of one person - just brought together items. I bet DKiG is a light Zimmermann.

Alex, I checked with the dealer. This group is complete, as issued to the recipient (no 'ring ins'). I emailed the dealer and received his assurance. That this is the case.

[kiwitedferny]

Looks very nice! Hope you will post some more photos later!?

Yes indeed. It should be here in a week or so.

[Cole Bush]

1, collecting documents (grouping) is far more interesting than collecting liveless/inanimated medals.
2, documents grouping is unique, the medal you can find close or indentical one.
3, grouping is hard to collect, not so many are willing to sell, moreover, a complete grouping is another critical factor.
4, you have to spend so much tine to research the information, the division history, the regiment hisotry/actions.
5, your choice is right, grouping must come with WP/SB that contents much personal information,it is very importnat and helpful for the researchings.
6,BUT i suggest you should buy completed documents in the future. i don't like missing documents especially the important documents in the grouping.

[InfanterieSammler]

Alex, I checked with the dealer. This group is complete, as issued to the recipient (no 'ring ins'). I emailed the dealer and received his assurance. That this is the case.

The KC documentation is original - very nice.

Regarding the dealer's "assurance", I would ask for the provenance that the medals belong with the documents? Most dealers will tell you a group belongs together, but when probed further can offer zero proof. If there is no proof, how can a dealer then offer you his assurance? Wouldn't it be worthless then?

Regards,
John

[kiwitedferny]

1, collecting documents (grouping) is far more interesting than collecting liveless/inanimated medals.
2, documents grouping is unique, the medal you can find close or indentical one.
3, grouping is hard to collect, not so many are willing to sell, moreover, a complete grouping is another critical factor.
4, you have to spend so much tine to research the information, the division history, the regiment hisotry/actions.
5, your choice is right, grouping must come with WP/SB that contents much personal information,it is very importnat and helpful for the researchings.
6,BUT i suggest you should buy completed documents in the future. i don't like missing documents especially the important documents in the grouping.

All good advice. However, budget dictates that some of the groups that have all the documentation and 'pedigree' are just out of reach!

[kiwitedferny]

The KC documentation is original - very nice.

Regarding the dealer's "assurance", I would ask for the provenance that the medals belong with the documents? Most dealers will tell you a group belongs together, but when probed further can offer zero proof. If there is no proof, how can a dealer then offer you his assurance? Wouldn't it be worthless then?

Regards,
John

Cheers John. I checked the dealer out more than I did the medals! I have a written assurance - without equivocation - if it is determined that something is 'dodgy', then ill be unleashing the big dick swinging lawyer I keep on a chain. And posting on WAF telling you guys all about it.

Micheal at Emedals is the guy I'm dealing with. He checked out with Jason B. if there's something you think I should know about this dealer, I am all ears.

[streptile]

Barry Turk is on a short list of the very best dealers on the internet. I say this from personal experience. He sells originals and will take anything back if there's a problem. I'm sure he believes everything is copacetic with the grouping, but any grouping requires a leap of faith (unless, as some actually do, it contains a photo of the recipient wearing the identifiable awards).

[InfanterieSammler]

Cheers John. I checked the dealer out more than I did the medals! I have a written assurance - without equivocation - if it is determined that something is 'dodgy', then ill be unleashing the big dick swinging lawyer I keep on a chain. And posting on WAF telling you guys all about it.

Micheal at Emedals is the guy I'm dealing with. He checked out with Jason B. if there's something you think I should know about this dealer, I am all ears.

I am not commenting specifically on this dealer (eMedals) in negative way, in fact one of the my KC document groups comes from there. It is more of a general statement regarding how easy it is for a dealer to state that everything belongs together, because there is virtually no way to disprove this. A written assurance does not equal true provenance (i.e. proof), that's what I'm driving at.

There is a now retired German dealer who was considered one of, if not the, best source in the world for KC groups. He sold dozens of attributed KC's and KC groups with his COA's. Most will tell you today that they (COA's) are worthless, because in many/most cases there is no actual proof that the medals originated along with the documents. There are even more disturbing rumors that have surfaced since as well.


IMO, when boiled down to the core (pardon the pun), most KC groups are original parts medals/documents with zero proof that they belong together.

Best,
John

[InfanterieSammler]

...but any grouping requires a leap of faith (unless, as some actually do, it contains a photo of the recipient wearing the identifiable awards).

I agree with this statement whole-heartedly. For me, I'm never willing to make the leap, especially when spending this kind of money. I once caught a dealer in a flat out lie about a KC group - medals and docs. The dealer told me everything originally belonged to the soldier, though he agreed to sell me the docs only. Later on, I got in contact with the family of the recipient and was told by the sold son in no uncertain terms that he only sold the dealer the documents. Still have the emails from the dealer...Happens every single day in this hobby and probably to the greater degree with KC groups due to the amount of money to be made.

Best,
John

[kiwitedferny]

I am not commenting specifically on this dealer (eMedals) in negative way, in fact one of the my KC document groups comes from there. It is more of a general statement regarding how easy it is for a dealer to state that everything belongs together, because there is virtually no way to disprove this. A written assurance does not equal true provenance (i.e. proof), that's what I'm driving at.

There is a now retired German dealer who was considered one of, if not the, best source in the world for KC groups. He sold dozens of attributed KC's and KC groups with his COA's. Most will tell you today that they (COA's) are worthless, because in many/most cases there is no actual proof that the medals originated along with the documents. There are even more disturbing rumors that have surfaced since as well.


IMO, when boiled down to the core (pardon the pun), most KC groups are original parts medals/documents with zero proof that they belong together.

Best,
John

I certainly hear what you are saying. I've been 'burnt' enough times to be sceptical. However, we are obliged to take a 'punt', after due diligence, on most high end Militaria items in one way or another. I rely on a general consensus among people in the know, and the WAF guys, to steer me towards the good guy dealers. I also rely on the fact that I do go face to face with people that have ripped me off. You can hurt people quite well with a well placed thumb applied to a neck pressure point. No proof of assault - no visit from the Boys in Blue. Ask a certain Auckland dealer about it...

[InfanterieSammler]

I certainly hear what you are saying. I've been 'burnt' enough times to be sceptical. However, we are obliged to take a 'punt', after due diligence, on most high end Militaria items in one way or another. I rely on a general consensus among people in the know, and the WAF guys, to steer me towards the good guy dealers. I also rely on the fact that I do go face to face with people that have ripped me off. You can hurt people quite well with a well placed thumb applied to a neck pressure point. No proof of assault - no visit from the Boys in Blue. Ask a certain Auckland dealer about it...

Roger that. Speaking from the documents side (my area) it certainly looks like you got a nice group. I hope you enjoy it.

Best,
John

[kiwitedferny]

Roger that. Speaking from the documents side (my area) it certainly looks like you got a nice group. I hope you enjoy it.

Best,
John

Thank you. I may pick your brains at some point about documentation. I'm very 'green' in this area.