SKiG Spanish Cross (Kreuz) in Gold Juncker

[Scott C.]

Nice cross Brian

[Brian S]

Thanks it had me going too.

1,1125 awarded versus 8,000 ++ RKs.

Believe this would be the first "combat" award.

[Brian S]

Reverse. Appears there was once a label on the reverse.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Very nice. You know that an L/12 marked piece cannot be an award piece? The institition of the LDO-numbers in March 1941 is far later than the date when the awarding of the Spanish Crosses was officially finalized. This one is an example for private purchase and not one of the official 1126 awards (regarding Doehle).

[Brian S]

Very nice. You know that an L/12 marked piece cannot be an award piece? The institition of the LDO-numbers in March 1941 is far later than the date when the awarding of the Spanish Crosses was officially finalized. This one is an example for private purchase and not one of the official 1126 awards (regarding Doehle).

Maybe so Dietrich, but are you suggesting this one might have been purchased by a tourist to the Reich? You suggesting this did not belong to an "awardee"? But perhaps a child of the Reich playing dress up Galland in the Hinterhof. Believe the 3/4 Ring RK has been described as "private purchase". I'll take two please. I have not seen an abundance of Juncker gold SCiG, L/12 or CEJ. The only difference being a stamp to the reverse. Are you also aware that the SC was still being awarded for deeds discovered later than 1939? I didn't find it that significant when reading a few days ago in one of my Marseille books but thought it interesting that as late as 1942 (Seille's last year of life) the SC( Instituted 14th April, 1939, struck and presented later) was still being awarded.

This L/12 and L/50 were indeed awarded.

[Dietrich Maerz]

No, that is not what I was suggesting nor saying. All I am saying s that a L/12 marked cross is not one that was originally awarded. It could come from an actual awardee who bought it, it could have come from a collector during the Third Reich or it could have been taken from a shop by Allied soldiers where it was offered for sale.

Spanish Crosses were not exempt from private purchase so they were sold freely. What that has to do with the 3/4 Ring which was clearly awarded, I have no idea. Also, that topic has nothing to do with the L/12 marked Knights Crosses.

Fact remains, it is no award piece. Can't be when marked L/12. Not a Spanish Cross!

Dietrich

PS : i don't think that you can compare the L/50 oaks and/or Swords with the Spanish Cross. But if you think that this example marked L/12 is one of the awarded in June 1939, nearly two years before the introduction of the LDO numbers, that is fine with me. The main thing is that it was made by Juncker before May 1945.

[Brian S]

Please don't put words in my mouth Dietrich. I merely said there were 1,100 awardees of the SCiG and 8,000 RKs. For some reason this seems to have unhinged you. I am merely suggesting that there were 8 times more RKs awarded than SCiG. , there were "Private" purchase RKs, nicht? Interesting that you'd suggest "collectors" were purchasing Juncker L/12 SKiG's. Where are they all? Certainly haven't shown up here. But have at... Far be it for me to offer some useful photos.

Please delete this thread.

[Dietrich Maerz]

I willl certainly not delete this thread!

Spanish Crosses in Gold (and in Silver and in Bronze) were available for private purchase after the official awarding of this decoration was finished, latest in 1940. They were made by several companies, amongst them Juncker (L/12), Zimmermann (L/52), Meybauer (L/13), Deumer (L/11) with LDO numbers. Additional known makers for the Gold grade are Schickle, Foerster & Barth, Zimmermann, Petz & Lorenz and one unknown maker ( so far).

They could be bought by the former awardees and by collectors (after getting a collector permit), just as any other order (with the famous exceptions) or medal could be bought privarely during the Third Reich.

Why these documented facts upset you is beyond me and why it would be degrading to a genuine Juncker-made cross in Gold when it was once bought by a collector (just like it is now ...) or awardee as an additional piece (or found in the shop after the war like thousands of other orders and medals) is not something I understand. We have that with a plethora of EK1s and even with Knights Crosses and nobody is getting upset!

It is a beautiful piece. It is genuine and "Thank You" for showing it to us. But is is not an award piece just like all the other L/-marked pieces are not award peices but still very nice and desireable orders.

There are even "4" marked Spanish Crosses, a marking which is years after the actual award dates. Also not an award piece.

Dietrich

[Brian S]

What lies have I perpetrated in this thread Dietrich??? Did I state this piece was handed over before the LDO was created? NO I did not.

[Brian S]

Thanks it had me going too.

1,1125 awarded versus 8,000 ++ RKs.

Seems it is this quote that gave you the urge to call me out as "misleading" the community. And this is a lie why Dietrich???

[Dietrich Maerz]

Brian,

Where did I use the word "misleading"? Or the word "lie"?

You should stop making false assumptions and you should stop posting! It is getting ridiculous!

Dietrich

[George L]

Hey Brian, that's a lovely SCiG you have there! Not one of the earliest presentation examples handed out in '39, but still super.

[Brian S]

Hey Brian, that's a lovely SCiG you have there! Not one of the earliest presentation examples handed out in '39, but still super.

Thanks George