Ek2 packages, I need your opinions

[Giel VW]

Hello, what do you think of these packages?

[kokstok]

I have to say that i don't like them for me they don't look good.

gr. René.

[MH184]

Giel,

To be honest I couldn't say for 101% ?

The tan packet, well it's construction is a little messy but then the papers creased too, perhaps there's been some 'creep' or movement of construction as effect of what ever has happened to it.

Until I get a picture of a fake like it and a 'genuine' one or someone can elaborate further perhaps, I don't know at this moment in time.

The blue packet, well it LOOKS ok and the type set of the desigantion is like that of genuine examples, I see some differences as slight as they may be........but you know you'll get that anyway to an extent.

The maker mark on the blue one looks convincing yet again, the tan packet....not to keen on these middle of the packet maker marks to be honest.

A hard task this one, as fakes are getting better and better. Not a hard task really to fake though.....so we must keep on top of these.

Can we have measurments to the exact mm on both please. Have you black lighted the blue one at all (forget the tan one, it wouldn't work on that one)

To judge these ones I'd need them in hand. Smaller size pic's would be more helpful actually, and a detailed close up the paper and maker marks on both and if possible the designation's. I want to see the texture of the paper too can you take an angle shot of the paper please close up.


I'm away each day, so I may not be able to get back to you properly until the weekend.

Kind regards,

Marcus

[greg.hays]

The blue one looks good to me, I have a couple. I have asked around about these issue envelopes quite a bit and one thing I have taken away from my research is that the fat "3" in the date is a good sign. The font or print type on the other envelope would have me a little worried. I say this because I have seen a lot of this type of envelope showing up at markets here in Germany and they are usually being sold along side Eastern block garbage. I, however, am certainly far from being an expert, so it's just MHO. Greg

[MH184]

You're right Greg at Stuttgart I saw alot of 'new' fakes mostly tan packet variants. This one I can't place or comment on unfortunately really.

This type set I would expect on a smaller packet on the tan, possibly devoid of date.

This type of construction is possible, but can be losely related to Juncker marker packets and indeed earlier very much earlier packets........say in the 30's even.

The blue one, yes it's like an original pattern, but I can't be 101% sure on it......it looks good by all means but......... ?

Kind regards,

Marcus

[Giel VW]

Thanks for the opinions! Wednesday I am at my fathers place, he has one of the best cameras, and I will provide you with some great pic's! I love the packages, but I hate the fakes that excists of them

Regards Giel

[Giel VW]

BTW, the fabric on the blue one is Carl Forfter & Graf or something like that, and the other one is Deinrich Bogt Dforghelm, or also something like that .

[Giel VW]

I've got some news detail pictures...

[MH184]

Arh thats better. Uumm I'm going to have to look at this carefully.....there are now evident a couple of pointers that I'm not so keen on.

I can't vouch it's fake in all honesty or genuine. I would however suspect the tan packet to be a probable fake.

I will keep on this though and try to get an answer for you, even if I pay for the postage for you to send them to me and I'll insure them for you........so I can answer your questions for you.

Kind regards,

Marcus

[Tom Yanacek]

Hello Giel,

The first thing that sends a red flag up for me one both of these packets are the maker names themselves. I know that both of these firms (Heinrich Vogt and Forster & Graf) were involved in the production of meeting badges. In fact, just this past weekend in Louisville, I sold a 1939 Reichsparteitag tinnie that was maker marked to Heinrich Vogt. To the best of my knowledge, I do not know of a single military award that either of these company's produced. I have never seen Vogt's Lieferant number '105' on an award. I don't believe Forster & Graf even had a Lieferant number. Neither company had an LDO number to my knowledge. Until today, I have never seen a packet for a military award marked to these two companies. Of course my experience is limited to just what I have seen and examined over the years so it is quite possible that these have just escaped me until now. I could also be completely wrong when I say that Vogt and Forster & Graf did not produce military awards. Again, maybe they did and their pieces were not marked. If anyone knows of military awards produced by either of these companies, please come forward and let us know. I would be happy to hear from anyone about this point.
Having said all that, I would say that in addition to the question of the maker, I do not like the tan colored packet at all. I do not like the maker name placed near the center. I do not like the seam on the left side reverse. The overall workmanship seems sloppy. I also do not like the look of the paper, and something is definitely wrong with the appearance of those folds in the paper. I don't like the look of the award designation on the packet front.
The thing that troubles me the most on the blue packet is the maker. Other than that, the packet does have a very believable look about it. It does have a "just made yesterday" look about it, but mint condition items usually do. I like the look of the paper on this one. The award designation is pretty crisp looking, but almost too crisp.
Best regards! Tom

[George Stimson]

The blue one is close to one I have that's marked for S&L. Close, but not a cigar though....

[Giel VW]

Thanks for yours thoughts guys!
ps Marcus, send you a pm

[Tom Yanacek]

Hello to all,

I just happened to notice that Detlev Niemann has several of these blue, Forster & Graf EKII packets for sale on his website. Maybe they are worth taking a second look at.
Best regards! Tom

[MH184]

Where's the slit in the back of the envelope for the fold over flap.....I can't see it ? That was one thing that made me think uuummm then the print I can't explain it....I'm undecided as of yet, but they are being posted to me tomorrow so I can view them for Giel and then send them back.

Well spotted Tom, can we get a pic from Detlev's site......your sure they are the one in the same. (I've forgotten my bloody log in thingy for Detlev's site, I'm always doing that )


Kind regards,

Marcus

[Tom Yanacek]

Hello Marcus,

Here is the link. Hope it works. (sorry but that didn't work)
Best regards! Tom