EK1 for opinions

[streptile]

Just got this one.

All opinions welcome.

[streptile]

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[StefanK.]

I think we could only make a guess on that one since this type is neither recorded in any EK book, nor i have seen it before.

But here are my thoughts:

The overall condition looks credible, the piece has a nice patina, it shows something we wold call honest wear and the setup looks credible either. The pin itself reminds me of early Schickle crosses (but not the Schinkel pieces) and the core resembles something between L/53 and L/54.


BUT: something tells me that i dont like this cross. Firstly the swastica is totally assymetrical; something that would be an absolutely no go in my mind. Moreover i dont like the combination of the odd numerals and the precisely zimmermann look-alike frame. Also the reverse doesnt impress me. The pin is something like a very good copy of the firstly cited early Schickle pins but it totally doesnt fit to the plump, late-ware catch one would discover on late-late war Souvals. Also the patina of the back looks odd.

In conclusion i do not like the cross although i cannot preclude that it is indeed a wartime piece. But my experience of nearly 15 years of ek-collecting says "better not"



What is yoir personal opinion, trevor?

[Hans Kondor]

I don't like this cross, especially the reverse, looks artificial to me.

[streptile]

Hi Stefan and Hans,

Many thanks for your opinions. I'm at work without much time at the moment, so I will just show two more pictures for now and ask:

Any more opinions?

[grueni1208]

These kind of number design I only know on 57er EK's.
IMO a reworked EK I.

[Douglas 5]

Trevor : .... for me that frame has been around something like 5 to 10 years now , - and has been mis-used for a few different home made attempted cross 'upgrade atrocities' .
The sample below is one (I may have more samples) - posted a few years back . It seams to have the same catch but a different pin . The cross was opened to put in this fake R3 core and artificialy aged . This cross marked as a 20 as where the mark looks convincing . Why mess with an original cross ?? People do strange things to crosses . Was this now R3 original at one time .... I doubt myself ... others say -some originals parts ???
The different pin set ups and the sloppy arranged beading make me feel sceptical about this one too .
Now a daring thought : Could this be a rejected die- kept as an imergency backup and used after the bombing- if it survived ?? However can one identify war and post war use then ????


Douglas

[streptile]

These kind of number design I only know on 57er EK's.

YES!

You're right! I knew I recognized this date design from somewhere, and I've spent last night trying to remember where. But now because of your post I remember that this date design was used for 1957 cores.

Thanks Daniel

The frame is an original one from Zimmermann, not a copy of a Zimmermann. The pin is a type (shape) I know from Imperial EK1s, so I think it's likely that this is simply an old pin, and old frame, a new core, a late-war or postwar catch. In short: a parts-cross, a souvenir for occupation troops or a piece for display, or something like that. To me it's interesting anyway, and I paid a fair price.

When I get home I will check the core and see if the swastika is added to the core, or if this is a new postwar die of a swastika core.

[streptile]

Stefan, your analysis does you credit.

The overall condition looks credible, the piece has a nice patina... Firstly the swastica is totally assymetrical; something that would be an absolutely no go in my mind. Moreover i dont like... the plump, late-ware catch.

I think you're right about it all -- the swastika is asymmetrical because it was probably made by hand, or at least the die was made by hand in a time when no one cared to exercise quality control. The patina looks correct because this cross is probably 50+ years old, just not 65+ years old. And you're right about the catch too -- this type we see on very late war crosses, and... 57ers.

Thanks very much for taking the time to help me with your opinions.

[Snni]

Interesting cross for sure! Keep us updated!